Nato, Sweden, Vilnius, Ukraine etc.

[LinuxGal]

If I were NATO then I'd put obstacles in the way of Ukraine joining.  A NATO country on the border of Russia is a flashpoint and Putin can't keep it in his pants.

Finland joining NATO just doubled the frontier of flashpoint countries, if being in NATO really makes them flashpoints.  It seems to me that joining NATO is actually how you take flashpoint countries off the table in front of Russia.

[Thumpalumpacus]

If I were NATO then I'd put obstacles in the way of Ukraine joining.  A NATO country on the border of Russia is a flashpoint and Putin can't keep it in his pants.

Finland joining NATO just doubled the frontier of flashpoint countries, if being in NATO really makes them flashpoints.  It seems to me that joining NATO is actually how you take flashpoint countries off the table in front of Russia.

It's the best cordon sanitaire Russia's had in a few centuries.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If the Russians learned anything from two wars, it should be, ‘Don’t fuck with Finland.’

Boru

[Anomalocaris]

The russians only had bad experience with finland during one war.   During the second russo- finnish war the experience was very good for Russia.  it was mostly “just frown a little, and the fins will trip over themselves to curry favor with the warlord in kremlin”.   Hence the word “Finlandization”.

it was said in 1950 the Soviet for minister Vasinski asked Stalin why he had instructed the KGB to desist from trying to help local Finnish communists take power. Stalin is set to have replied that he could never find any communists who would do his bidding as faithfully as finnish capitalists.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The russians only had bad experience with finland during one war.   During the second russo- finnish war the experience was very good for Russia.  it was mostly “just frown a little, and the fins will trip over themselves to curry favor with the warlord in kremlin”.   Hence the word “Finlandization”.

Finland’s total casualties (not counting civilians): 225 000

Russia’s total casualties (same caveat): 944 000

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

Finland was a charter member of the Fuck Around and Find Out club.

Ukraine has since joined.

[Anomalocaris]

The russians only had bad experience with finland during one war.   During the second russo- finnish war the experience was very good for Russia.  it was mostly “just frown a little, and the fins will trip over themselves to curry favor with the warlord in kremlin”.   Hence the word “Finlandization”.

Finland’s total casualties (not counting civilians): 225 000

Russia’s total casualties (same caveat): 944 000

Boru

yes, and in the end Finland was Finlandized.  Throughout the Cold War, although Finland was never communist, and always had a nominal a democratic form of government, it was more reliably compliant to Moscow’s wishes than many of Moscow’s Warsaw Pact satellites.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Finland’s total casualties (not counting civilians): 225 000

Russia’s total casualties (same caveat): 944 000

Boru

yes, and in the end Finland was Finlandized

Actually, in the end, Finland is NATO-ized, in case you haven't been following the news. And in the intervening 80 years, USSR/Russia didn't fuck around any more, now did they?

[Anomalocaris]

I say, nominally democratic, because when Moscow made it known that some of the candidates were not to Moscow’s liking, Finland rewrote their election rules to exclude them

[Anomalocaris]

yes, and in the end Finland was Finlandized

Actually, in the end, Finland is NATO-ized, in case you haven't been following the news. And in the intervening 80 years, USSR/Russia didn't fuck around any more, now did they?

that was only because soviet Union fell.   The final outcome of the contest between the Soviet union and Finland was certainly satisfactory from the soviet perspective.