No one is an atheist

[Welsh cake]

I do so hope this is not another theist "hit-and-run" thread as Min has pointed out, we've had too many of them before. I'll respond with the cautious optimism you're not a troll and you'll participate in further discussion, if possible.

If atheism is simply a non-belief in God, then no one is an atheist. I don't mean that "everyone believes in God, they just don't know it." I mean that atheism is an attribute of an ideology, but it isn't an identity in itself.

Atheism is not an ideology in any sense of the word so I think you need to double-check what the actual current working definition of atheism is. Atheism within itself does not qualify as an identity or worldview as such, but imagine if you will, instead of deities millions believed in unicorns to be real and were by their definition "Unicornists", that's fine however you will still need a label for those who don't believe unicorns exists, "A-unicornists" for argument's sake.

When talking in cultural, social, and religious context, the label "Atheist" applies objectively to anyone who has an absence of belief in gods, therefore I use that label to identify myself as an atheist. Ta-dah.

I may be the one who believes in God, but I am not the only one who believes. All people believe.

So what? Your appeal to common belief fallacy in no way carries any weight in determining whether your beliefs are justified. You're making a broad-based erroneous assertion here even if you weren't being fallacious, not all people believe in god or gods, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place now would we?

Making inferences about reality is a necessary part of survival for humans. Atheism is just a general term for belief systems not based upon God.

Atheism is not a belief system.

IMO, if you can't admit that you have your own beliefs, you are a coward.

You've given cowardice as the only option while ruling out all the other possible reasons why people cannot identity their beliefs or non-beliefs in any given subject. Some are simply undecided, or indeterminate converting from one set of beliefs to another, I know a few who are intellectually dishonest, and others do not know what they believe is true.

To just call yourself an atheist without saying what you do believe in a debate is to have the discussion drowned in irrationality.

Don't be absurd, if we're having a discussion about gods, do I honestly have to tell you I don't think the Loch Ness Monster exists as well? If both of us had to identify everything we do believe in before we could start any debate we'd be here all day.

This is mostly what I've seen so far on this forum. Most of you don't have a formulated idea on anything, you just hate. It's the same kind of prejudice that many religious people function under.

Of the two of us right now, your tone is far more arrogant and venomous. You've only had two posts to date and claim to know us but from what I've seen so far you display a lack of critical thinking and have poor verbal reasoning skills. You need to work that on.

[Violet]

When talking in cultural, social, and religious context, the label "Atheist" applies objectively to anyone who has an absence of belief in gods, therefore I use that label to identify myself as an atheist. Ta-dah.

Minor nitpick here: if it applied objectively, then what of this theist's differing definition?

Also, it is not an absence of a belief in gods to believe that gods do not exist. That is a negative belief. An absence of belief regarding gods is also atheism, but not the kind which you or I posses (babies and plants have it in stones though). ^_^

I pick at nits because they are delicious

[Welsh cake]

Minor nitpick here: if it applied objectively, then what of this theist's differing definition?

Beg pardon I tried to approach it from its meaning in grammar and make it distinct from the term used within empirical science.

I should have said 'accurately' instead. I don't mind your nit-picking as it serves to delouse me after all. =D

[Rayaan]

If atheism is simply a non-belief in God, then no one is an atheist.

Atheism is a non-belief in God indeed which means that you don't believe in God. So, whoever doesn't believe in the existence of God is an atheist by definition.

I don't mean that "everyone believes in God, they just don't know it."

In other words, "Deep down inside, all atheists are theists, but they just don't know it." I think that's possible.
But now, an atheist can also say, "Deep down inside, all theists are atheists, but they just don't know it." I think that's also quite possible.

I mean that atheism is an attribute of an ideology, but it isn't an identity in itself.

I'm not sure what you mean by atheism being an "attribute of an ideology" and not an "identity in itself." Maybe you should clarify.

However, just to stick it in here, one of my thoughts on atheism is that when a person says that he doesn't believe in God, he is not rejecting God, but only rejecting models (or concepts) of God which he has in his mind. Although it's true that he doesn't believe in God, he is only rejecting a particular conception of God whether it's a personal one, a deistic god, a god sitting on the cloud, or whatever he's thinking of.

[lilphil1989]

---

If atheism is simply a non-belief in God, then no one is an atheist. I don't mean that "everyone believes in God, they just don't know it." I mean that atheism is an attribute of an ideology, but it isn't an identity in itself.

I've had several conversations with atheists that goes something like this:

"God doesn't exist. He's a fantasy just like the tooth fairy or santa claus."
"Well, what do you believe, if you don't believe in God?"
"It's not about what I believe, the burden of proof is on you. You are the one who believes."

I may be the one who believes in God, but I am not the only one who believes. All people believe. Making inferences about reality is a necessary part of survival for humans. Atheism is just a general term for belief systems not based upon God.

IMO, if you can't admit that you have your own beliefs, you are a coward. You are afraid to have your beliefs questioned, put under the same skepticism that you use against those that believe in God. Marx was a communist. Bertrand Russel was a rationalist. The Dalai Lama is a Buddhist. All these men are atheists, but they all have a specific system of ideology that is debatable in reasonable terms. To just call yourself an atheist without saying what you do believe in a debate is to have the discussion drowned in irrationality.

This is mostly what I've seen so far on this forum. Most of you don't have a formulated idea on anything, you just hate. It's the same kind of prejudice that many religious people function under. If that's what truly disgusts you about religion, perhaps you could realize that you don't need a religion to be a bigot. You also don't have to be a bigot to be religious.

---

All people believe, yes. However, not all beliefs all equally well grounded in rationality, and not all beliefs have an equal amount of evidence in support of them.

Atheism does not mean lack of belief in general. It means, specifically, lack of belief in a god or gods. Anyone who lacks belief in god, regardless of what other beliefs they may or may not hold, is an atheist.
Your reasoning regarding Marx et. al. is fallacious. One can be a theistic socialist or an atheistic socialist. (Indeed, the irony is that most christians are right-wing, whereas the bible clearly states that to be more christ you should give ALL your money and possessions to the poor: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven". Sounds awfully like socialism to me...)

You seem to think that anyone who lacks belief in god must replace that belief with something, but that is simply not the case.


I hope you stick around to have an adult discussion with us and not just post-and-run.

[tackattack]

You've obviously had several

I've had several conversations with atheists that goes something like this:

just none on here, as evidenced by your generalization

This is mostly what I've seen so far on this forum. Most of you don't have a formulated idea on anything, you just hate.

As far as

All people believe. Making inferences about reality is a necessary part of survival for humans.

Yes and I'm sure you believe more than one thing, we all believe all sorts of things, that does not make atheism what you want it to mean though.

Atheism is just a general term for belief systems not based upon God.

In case you needed it clarified, atheists deny the existence of any God, God wouldn't be an existimg object to not base your belief on. It is a lack of belief in the existence of gods. You can add lots of adjectives to that to describe all different types of atheists like apatheist, agnostic, strong, broad, passive, closet, but none of them believe in a God; which makes them all atheists.

I've not yet met an atheist on here who hasn't had a formulated idea of what they believe, and is willing to share that. Perhaps your antagonistic approach is what causes you to only find ignorant and unintellegent people, like sees like.

*Edited for clarity* not meaning it mean/pissed off in any way, just calling a spade a spade

[Darwinian]

IMO, if you can't admit that you have your own beliefs, you are a coward. You are afraid to have your beliefs questioned, put under the same skepticism that you use against those that believe in God. Marx was a communist. Bertrand Russel was a rationalist. The Dalai Lama is a Buddhist. All these men are atheists, but they all have a specific system of ideology that is debatable in reasonable terms. To just call yourself an atheist without saying what you do believe in a debate is to have the discussion drowned in irrationality.

Way to give yourself the moral high-ground where you can sit up high in judgement of us, the poor and lost. And how supremely arrogant of you to assume that, like you, we must have our own belief system, our own ideology. Why should we?

Just because we are atheists that says nothing about what we do believe in, it simply says that we do not accept your premise that there is a god, a premise for which you have zero evidence or verisimilitude.

Are you saying that because we have no religion or belief in superstition we must therefore have to have an alternative ideology of some sort to take its place lest we be left with some gaping metaphysical chasm in our lives?

I tell you that I am an atheist without the desire to tell you anything concerning my ideology about life as this is an atheist forum and my ideology is irrelevant to that subject.

[KichigaiNeko]

Quite frankly bliss...you've pissed off the 'Mighty Tack'

Mannnn you is in deep shit naow.

[theVOID]

If atheism is simply a non-belief in God, then no one is an atheist. I don't mean that "everyone believes in God, they just don't know it." I mean that atheism is an attribute of an ideology, but it isn't an identity in itself.

Firstly, Welcome.

Secondly, Atheism is from the Latin "A (apart from/without) theos (belief in a deity)", or "Without belief in god" - Everyone who does not believe in a god is an atheist. I do not believe in a god, therefore I am an atheist.

I've had several conversations with atheists that goes something like this:

"God doesn't exist. He's a fantasy just like the tooth fairy or santa claus."
"Well, what do you believe, if you don't believe in God?"
"It's not about what I believe, the burden of proof is on you. You are the one who believes."

I may be the one who believes in God, but I am not the only one who believes. All people believe. Making inferences about reality is a necessary part of survival for humans. Atheism is just a general term for belief systems not based upon God.

You have a semantic failure on your hands, not a real argument, but a personal failure to understand language.

Sure, we all have worldviews and a non theistic worldview (a worldview without gods) is necessarily an atheistic worldview. We have many beliefs about reality, for us a God is not part of that, you are the one positing this belief and as such you DO have the burden of proof.

IMO, if you can't admit that you have your own beliefs, you are a coward.

It is self evident that we all have beliefs, YOU have completely misunderstood, that is not anybodies fault but yours.

You are afraid to have your beliefs questioned, put under the same skepticism that you use against those that believe in God.

I believe there is no God. Question away, the only legitimate contention is an argument and/or evidence for a god - If you have either I would love to see it.

Marx was a communist. Bertrand Russel was a rationalist. The Dalai Lama is a Buddhist. All these men are atheists, but they all have a specific system of ideology that is debatable in reasonable terms. To just call yourself an atheist without saying what you do believe in a debate is to have the discussion drowned in irrationality.

In your above example you DID NOT ask what their worldview was. For someone to be an atheist simply means they have rejected belief in a deity, this says nothing about their world view, it only says something about their position on the existence of deities, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that response - Your reaction only suggests that you asked the wrong question.

This is mostly what I've seen so far on this forum. Most of you don't have a formulated idea on anything, you just hate.

Oh bullshit, most of us here are metaphysical naturalists, that is evident to anyone who spends any length of time here. If you want to challenge naturalism I'll gladly take you up on that.

I do not hate people who believe in God, I hate some of their positions on morality, their need to impose their valued on others, their disdain for those who disagree but that still leaves a great many theists well shy of my "hate".

It's the same kind of prejudice that many religious people function under. If that's what truly disgusts you about religion, perhaps you could realize that you don't need a religion to be a bigot. You also don't have to be a bigot to be religious.

Nobody here disagrees that you need religion to be a bigot...

It is relatively clear that you do not understand atheism, stick around and discuss it if you like, perhaps you will leave here with at least half a clue, which would be a great deal more than you have now.

*SIDE NOTE*

You're awesome Dave!

[Zen Badger]

If atheism is simply a non-belief in God, then no one is an atheist. I don't mean that "everyone believes in God, they just don't know it." I mean that atheism is an attribute of an ideology, but it isn't an identity in itself.

I think you'll have to clarify as this statement makes no sense at all.

I've had several conversations with atheists that goes something like this:

"God doesn't exist. He's a fantasy just like the tooth fairy or santa claus."
"Well, what do you believe, if you don't believe in God?"
"It's not about what I believe, the burden of proof is on you. You are the one who believes."

I may be the one who believes in God, but I am not the only one who believes. All people believe. Making inferences about reality is a necessary part of survival for humans. Atheism is just a general term for belief systems not based upon God.

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make, yes.... all people have all sorts of beliefs. We here just don't include your petty little sky tyrant in them.

IMO, if you can't admit that you have your own beliefs, you are a coward.

But we just have.

You are afraid to have your beliefs questioned, put under the same skepticism that you use against those that believe in God. Marx was a communist. Bertrand Russel was a rationalist. The Dalai Lama is a Buddhist. All these men are atheists, but they all have a specific system of ideology that is debatable in reasonable terms. To just call yourself an atheist without saying what you do believe in a debate is to have the discussion drowned in irrationality.

OMFG, just count the unfounded assumptions in that rant.

This is mostly what I've seen so far on this forum. Most of you don't have a formulated idea on anything, you just hate.

Please provide specific examples or you are talking out of your arse.

It's the same kind of prejudice that many religious people function under.

No it's not, think what prejudice is. To pre judge someone or something. I.e that person is a sinner because he/she is gay.

Doesn't matter who they are or what they've done, they are SINNNERs!!!!

We, on the other hand, look at what someone has actually done, then condemm them for their actions. Quite a bit different you would have to agree.
For instance, on of my hero's is Father Bob Maguire, a catholic priest from Melbourne who represents what the church should be(No co-incidence that the hierachy tried to remove him).

If that's what truly disgusts you about religion, perhaps you could realize that you don't need a religion to be a bigot. You also don't have to be a bigot to be religious.

But it certainly helps.