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A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will

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A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
Thumpalumpacus Offline
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#261
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
November 19, 2023 at 11:02 pm
(November 19, 2023 at 5:31 pm)Ahriman Wrote: God teaching you a lesson about not getting your way all the time doesn't really count as "coercion". Calling it "coercion" would be like current adult me accusing my mom of child abuse for not buying me groceries.

When a supposed soul is held hostage, and the adherent has been programmed to believe in both this god and the soul, yeah, it's coercive.

It's not hard to break so long as one questions one's own precepts. But it is certainly an attempt at coercion: "Do as we say god wants you to do, or suffer in eternity after death."

That's a fairly pointed statement.

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Thumpalumpacus Offline
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#262
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
November 19, 2023 at 11:05 pm
(November 19, 2023 at 4:57 pm)ShinyCrystals Wrote: That said, why do some people here not believe in free will?

I don't believe in free will because there's not enough evidence.

Ditto determinism. There's not enough evidence to carry either argument.

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Ahriman Offline
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#263
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
November 20, 2023 at 1:24 am
(November 19, 2023 at 10:07 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(November 19, 2023 at 5:31 pm)Ahriman Wrote: God teaching you a lesson about not getting your way all the time doesn't really count as "coercion". Calling it "coercion" would be like current adult me accusing my mom of child abuse for not buying me groceries.

You and I have already had a soul forge discussion.  Nothing about that discussion gave me the impression that you believed a single word of what you were saying.

Not sure what the soul forge has to do with the current discussion.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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The Grand Nudger Online
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#264
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
November 20, 2023 at 2:00 am
Exactly.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Huolpoch Offline
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#265
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
December 5, 2023 at 10:20 pm
How is free will defined? Does it have to be one or the other? We may be conditioned to do certain things a certain way, but I don't think we are conditioned to do every thing a certain way.
... but I know none, and therefore am no best.
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Harry Haller Offline
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#266
RE: A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will
December 6, 2023 at 12:21 am
(December 5, 2023 at 10:20 pm)Huolpoch Wrote: How is free will defined?  Does it have to be one or the other?  We may be conditioned to do certain things a certain way, but I don't think we are conditioned to do every thing a certain way.
I would tend to agree.  

Life is not 100% predetermined by past events and nature but they have a strong influence on the present.  Our genetic makeup, life experiences, and the World around us predispose us to act in certain ways.  However, as people capable of thought and rationalization we have the ability to change course if we can summon the focus, motivation, and self-control to force the change.  Predispositioned is not predetermined.  

We might be adrift in the sea.  We don't get to pick our boat or the weather conditions, but we are still the captain.  We can adjust the rigging to best harness the winds or guide the rudder to steer ourselves in a favorable direction.  We can also let go and let fate take us wherever it wants.  Our free will is proportional to our ability to control our minds.  

"He who has control over himself as control over the World" - Seneca
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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion v
A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will

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