Christianity; the World's Most Violently Persecuted Religion

[Nay_Sayer]

Which it is of course not

The human body - like all other mammals - is designed/develops to reproduce sexually; that is through a male and female combining sperm and egg.

That isn't what you said Nor what he meant in reply. Please keep your goalposts firmly planted at all times.

Shock and awe you're a homophobe.

May FSM unharden your heart one day. RAmen.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Which it is of course not

The human body - like all other mammals - is designed/develops to reproduce sexually; that is through a male and female combining sperm and egg.

The human species, like all other mammals, has a certainly percentage of homosexual/bisexual members. The fact that homosexuals are a minority in no way implies that their sexuality is unnatural, any more than blue eyes being in the minority means that we with blue eyes are genetically-modified.

Then, too, you're entirely ignoring the fact that you, who claim that your god created everything, must accept that he created homosexuals too. Is any part of your god's creation "unnatural"? How is it your "perfect" god should create these damnable souls? Were they a surprise?

[Nay_Sayer]

Anyways, back on topic though slightly oblique; Syria.

As the Turkish-backed ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Jihadist rebels now have control over the Western section of the country, Syria's 500,000+ Christians (as well as Jews, Druze and other minorities) are on the block for a spike in targeted persecution - while the Al Asad government was not saintly it didn't particularly engage in religious persecution... more just, "Anyone he didn't like."

The human body - like all other mammals - is designed/develops to reproduce sexually; that is through a male and female combining sperm and egg.

The human species, like all other mammals, has a certainly percentage of homosexual/bisexual members. The fact that homosexuals are a minority in no way implies that their sexuality is unnatural, any more than blue eyes being in the minority means that we with blue eyes are genetically-modified.

Nope. You dug yourself a hole, Now you have to dig yourself out.  

Thoughts and prayers

[The Architect Of Fate]

The human body - like all other mammals - is designed/develops to reproduce sexually; that is through a male and female combining sperm and egg.

Humans evolved to do this, but that's irrelevant as homosexuality is observed in numerous other species on the planet and the fact our bodies evolved to do X does not in any way demonstrate it isn't nature (As it occurs in nature). Try again

[The Architect Of Fate]

Anyways, back on topic though slightly oblique; Syria.

As the Turkish-backed ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Jihadist rebels now have control over the Western section of the country, Syria's 500,000+ Christians (as well as Jews, Druze and other minorities) are on the block for a spike in targeted persecution - while the Al Asad government was not saintly it didn't particularly engage in religious persecution... more just, "Anyone he didn't like."

Fantasy

[Nay_Sayer]

The human body - like all other mammals - is designed/develops to reproduce sexually; that is through a male and female combining sperm and egg.

Humans evolved to do this, but that's irrelevant as homosexuality is observed in numerous other species on the planet and the fact our bodies evolved to do X does not in any way demonstrate it isn't nature (As it occurs in nature). Try again

Also of note he had to deliberately specify mammals since the majority of life on this planet reproduces via Binary fission.

[Angrboda]

There's little evidence the body was designed. Was it developed for this or that? A very circumscribed concept of teleology is accepted at times by biologists, but it's not clear that this kind of teleology is of the same kind as the traditional, agent-based form of teleology.

For my money, I think biological teleology is too front-loaded to be meaningful in that we, subjectively, identify features or characteristics of interest or value to us, and based on that valuation assert that this is what the feature or characteristic is for. A similar process can be observed in Natural Law, wherein ideology drives the outcome, rather than any impartial objective facts.

A second problem is that such things tend to ignore that biological structures may have multiple effects and therefore multiple purposes. Thus while sex can lead to reproduction, it can also lead to the forming of emotional bonds which create stable relationships. Perhaps Aquinas was a bit short-sighted in that, as while he obviously values consecrated heterosexual marriages, he doesn't seem to value the role that recreational sex plays in that process. This leads to the third problem wherein one engages in dichotomous thinking, that a structure or feature is meant for one specific thing, and once that one specific thing is recognized, all other effects or uses of that feature are deemed unimportant, or unnatural. But it doesn't follow that because something is good for some specific purpose, that it is only for that purpose. Religious natural law has justifications for such an inference, while secular natural law and biological teleology do not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Anyways, back on topic though slightly oblique; Syria.

As the Turkish-backed ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Jihadist rebels now have control over the Western section of the country, Syria's 500,000+ Christians (as well as Jews, Druze and other minorities) are on the block for a spike in targeted persecution - while the Al Asad government was not saintly it didn't particularly engage in religious persecution... more just, "Anyone he didn't like."

That's questionable. An article I read this morning:

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DAMASCUS (AP) — At Damascus’ international airport, the new head of security — one of the rebels who marched across Syria to the capital — arrived with his team. The few maintenance workers who showed up for work huddled around Maj Hamza al-Ahmed, eager to learn what will happen next.

They quickly unloaded all the complaints they had been too afraid to express during the rule of President Bashar Assad, which now, inconceivably, is over.

They told the bearded fighter they were denied promotions and perks in favor of pro-Assad favorites, and that bosses threatened them with prison for working too slowly. They warned of hardcore Assad supporters among airport staff, ready to return whenever the facility reopens.

As Al-Ahmed tried to reassure them, Osama Najm, an engineer, announced: “This is the first time we talk.”

This was the first week of Syria’s transformation after Assad’s unexpected fall.

Rebels, suddenly in charge, met a population bursting with emotions: excitement at new freedoms; grief over years of repression; and hopes, expectations and worries about the future. Some were overwhelmed to the point of tears.

The transition has been surprisingly smooth. Reports of reprisals, revenge killings and sectarian violence have been minimal. Looting and destruction have been quickly contained, insurgent fighters disciplined. On Saturday, people went about their lives as usual in the capital, Damascus. Only a single van of fighters was seen.

There are a million ways it could go wrong.

The country is broken and isolated after five decades of Assad family rule. Families have been torn apart by war, former prisoners are traumatized by the brutalities they suffered, tens of thousands of detainees remain missing. The economy is wrecked, poverty is widespread, inflation and unemployment are high. Corruption seeps through daily life.

But in this moment of flux, many are ready to feel out the way ahead.

At the airport, al-Ahmed told the staffers: “The new path will have challenges, but that is why we have said Syria is for all and we all have to cooperate.”

The rebels have so far said all the right things, Najm said. “But we will not be silent about anything wrong again.”

Idlib comes to Damascus
At a torched police station, pictures of Assad were torn down and files destroyed after insurgents entered the city Dec. 8. All Assad-era police and security personnel have vanished.

On Saturday, the building was staffed by 10 men serving in the police force of the rebels’ de facto “salvation government,” which for years governed the rebel enclave of Idlib in Syria’s northwest.

The rebel policemen watch over the station, dealing with reports of petty thefts and street scuffles. One woman complains that her neighbors sabotaged her power supply. A policeman tells her to wait for courts to start operating again.

“It will take a year to solve problems” he mumbled.

The rebels sought to bring order in Damascus by replicating the structure of its governance in Idlib. But there is a problem of scale. One of the policemen estimates the number of rebel police at only around 4,000; half are based in Idlib and the rest are tasked with maintaining security in Damascus and elsewhere. Some experts estimate the insurgents’ total fighting force at around 20,000.

Right now, the fighters and the public are learning about each other.

The fighters drive large SUVs and newer models of vehicles that are out of reach for most residents in Damascus, where they cost 10 times as much because of custom duties and bribes. The fighters carry Turkish lira, long forbidden in government-held areas, rather than the plunging Syrian pound.

Most of the bearded fighters hail from conservative, provincial areas. Many are hardline Islamists.

The main insurgent force, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, has renounced its al-Qaida past, and its leaders are working to reassure Syria’s religious and ethnic communities that the future will be pluralist and tolerant.

But many Syrians remain suspicious. Some fighters sport ribbons with Islamist slogans on their uniforms and not all of them belong to HTS, the most organized group.

“The people we see on the streets, they don’t represent us,” said Hani Zia, a Damascus resident from the southern city of Daraa, where the 2011 anti-Assad uprising began. He was concerned by reports of attacks on minorities and revenge killings.

“We should be fearful,” he said, adding that he worries some insurgents feel superior to other Syrians because of their years of fighting. “With all due respect to those who sacrificed, we all sacrificed.”

Still, fear is not prevalent in Damascus, where many insist they will no longer let themselves be oppressed.

Some restaurants have resumed openly serving alcohol, others more discretely to test the mood.

At a sidewalk café in the historic Old City’s Christian quarter, men were drinking beer when a fighter patrol passed by. The men turned to each other, uncertain, but the fighters did nothing. When a man waving a gun harassed a liquor store elsewhere in the Old City, the rebel police arrested him, one policeman said.

Salem Hajjo, a theater teacher who participated in the 2011 protests, said he doesn’t agree with the rebels’ Islamist views, but is impressed at their experience in running their own affairs. And he expects to have a voice in the new Syria.

“We have never been this at ease,” he said. “The fear is gone. The rest is up to us.”

The fighters make a concerted effort to reassure
On the night after Assad’s fall, gunmen roamed the streets, celebrating victory with deafening gunfire. Some security agency buildings were torched. People ransacked the airport’s duty free, smashing all the bottles of liquor. The rebels blamed some of this on fleeing government loyalists.

The public stayed indoors, peeking out at the newcomers. Shops shut down.

Hayat Tahrir al-Sham moved to impose order, ordering a nighttime curfew for three days. It banned celebratory gunfire and moved fighters to protect properties.

After a day, people began to emerge.

For tens of thousands, their first destination was Assad’s prisons, particularly Saydnaya on the capital’s outskirts, to search for loved ones who disappeared years ago. Few have found any traces.

It was wrenching but also unifying. Rebels, some of them also searching, mingled with relatives of the missing in the dark halls of prisons that all had feared for years.

During celebrations in the street, gunmen invited children to hop up on their armored vehicles. Insurgents posed for photos with women, some with their hair uncovered. Pro-revolution songs blared from cars. Suddenly shops and walls everywhere are plastered with revolutionary flags and posters of activists killed by Assad’s state.

TV stations didn’t miss a beat, flipping from praising Assad to playing revolutionary songs. State media aired the flurry of declarations issued by the new insurgent-led transitional government.

The new administration called on people to go back to work and urged Syrian refugees around the world to return to help rebuild. It announced plans to rehabilitate and vet the security forces to prevent the return of “those with blood on their hands.” Fighters reassured airport staffers — many of them government loyalists — that their homes won’t be attacked, one employee said.

But Syria’s woes are far from being resolved.

While produce prices plunged after Assad’s fall, because merchants no longer needed to pay hefty customs fees and bribes, fuel distribution was badly disrupted, jacking up transportation costs and causing widespread and lengthy blackouts.

Officials say they want to reopen the airport as soon as possible and this week maintenance crews inspected a handful of planes on the tarmac. Cleaners removed trash, wrecked furniture and merchandise.

One cleaner, who identified himself only as Murad, said he earns the equivalent of $15 a month and has six children to feed, including one with a disability. He dreams of getting a mobile phone.

“We need a long time to clean this up,” he said.

https://apnews.com/article/syria-week-on...948264cdf1

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I don't have much hope that these rebels will turn out many good things, but it's a little early for you Christians to be climbing up the martyrdom cross.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I'm willing to give the new government a chance it's pure paranoid fantasy to leap to any conclusions yet

[Thumpalumpacus]

There's little evidence the body was designed.  Was it developed for this or that?

Right. The mammalian retina is a great example of inefficient design cobbled together because its precedents had already dictated an evolutionary path that was too hard to undo. And who knows what function the appendix originally provided, and why didn't any Designer™ simply extirpate it? [ETA: Curiosity stoked and reading, this last point may be vapid; the appendix may indeed serve a function.]

 

A very circumscribed concept of teleology is accepted at times by biologists, but it's not clear that this kind of teleology is of the same kind as the traditional, agent-based form of teleology.

Could you expand on this, Dano? I'm not sure I understand what kind of teleology you're referring to.