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April 23, 2011 at 1:12 am (This post was last modified: April 23, 2011 at 1:34 am by Godscreated.)
(April 22, 2011 at 3:46 pm)Strongbad Wrote:
(April 22, 2011 at 10:15 am)Godschild Wrote:
Because I know there are Southern Baptists that believe they are saved yet they are as lost as last years Easter eggs. Going to church does not save a person, as for the Catholics I believe the leadership to be the ones who are lost, not all but many, ie. the priest that rape innocent boys. As far as I'm concerned these men should never ever see the outside of prison.
You are implying that YOU know what it takes to be saved, but that certain Southern Baptists do not not have this knowledge. They're obviously not true Christians, right?
As far as you're concerned, priests who rape innocent boys should never see the outside of prison, as long as they are alive. But don't you also believe that if while they are in prison, they "truly repent" of their "sins" and accept Jesus into their hearts, they will get to spend all eternity in the utopia of heaven? On the other hand, should a man who never committed a crime against his fellow men and lived a peaceful law-abiding life, but was never convinced to believe in your god, have to spend eternity in the fiery pits of hell, as far as you're concerned?
Yes I do know why and how a person is saved, if I didn't then how could I be saved. I said they were not saved. They may have the knowledge to be saved but they have not accept it in their hearts, just knowing in this case does not get you all the way there. Obviously they are not.
That's what I stated isn't it. Yes to your first question. The crimes are not against man they are against God and they are called sin and the judgement is for unrepented sin because there was no acceptance of the One who died so we could be forgiven.
(April 22, 2011 at 4:03 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:
Quote:I'm a Southern Baptist and I know many Catholics that are saved and most of my fellow Baptist would agree.
But what about Catholic doctrine? You say "many" Catholics are "saved," yet you apparently don't believe that they all are. But let's forget about whether they're "good" or "bad" Catholics or Baptists. Would you say that a person who follows Catholic doctrine to the letter is a true Christian? And do you think that Catholics think that Baptists like yourself are going to heaven even though you eat meat on Fridays during Lent and have never experienced the sacrament of confession?
I do not believe that everyone in any denomination is truly saved. As long as they have accepted Christ as the Son of God and repented of their sin and continue to live for Him then yes they are saved. No doctrine is 100% correct, Southern Baptist believe in once saved always saved, I do not, I believe that a person can walk away from their salvation if they so desire. My nephew's wife and her mother are catholic and they believe I will and all the rest of my family will be in heaven. My wifes family on both sides are mostly catholic and they believe I will be in heaven. I do not know how all catholics believe so to answer your question about all catholics I can not. I would find it strange that a catholic would believe I or any baptist would go to hell because we eat meat on Friday or during Lent, as far as the sacrament of confession goes I do not know.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(April 23, 2011 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: Yes I do know why and how a person is saved, if I didn't then how could I be saved. I said they were not saved. They may have the knowledge to be saved but they have not accept it in their hearts, just knowing in this case does not get you all the way there. Obviously they are not.
That's what I stated isn't it. Yes to your first question. The crimes are not against man they are against God and they are called sin and the judgement is for unrepented sin because there was no acceptance of the One who died so we could be forgiven.
It would seem that your arrogance is only exceeded by your capacity for delusion. Somehow, you have become the arbiter who decides who is saved and who is not.
Crimes against god? I'm sure you would have no problem explaining to the mother of a child who was raped by a priest that this was not a crime against the child, but a "sin" against god which is also forgiveable if the priest has the correct thoughts.
Your belief that one can accept something "in their heart" is patently absurd. Your heart is a muscle that pumps blood; it is not capable of thought. All of your delusions of salvation occur in your small brain.
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
(April 23, 2011 at 1:12 am)Godschild Wrote: As long as they have accepted Christ as the Son of God and repented of their sin and continue to live for Him then yes they are saved.
But isn't that what 100% of Christians claim about themselves? I don't know many who say they haven't accepted Jesus and haven't repented of their sins.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
(April 22, 2011 at 10:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Because I know there are Southern Baptists that believe they are saved yet they are as lost as last years Easter eggs. Going to church does not save a person, as for the Catholics I believe the leadership to be the ones who are lost, not all but many, ie. the priest that rape innocent boys. As far as I'm concerned these men should never ever see the outside of prison.
You are implying that YOU know what it takes to be saved, but that certain Southern Baptists do not not have this knowledge. They're obviously not true Christians, right?
As far as you're concerned, priests who rape innocent boys should never see the outside of prison, as long as they are alive. But don't you also believe that if while they are in prison, they "truly repent" of their "sins" and accept Jesus into their hearts, they will get to spend all eternity in the utopia of heaven? On the other hand, should a man who never committed a crime against his fellow men and lived a peaceful law-abiding life, but was never convinced to believe in your god, have to spend eternity in the fiery pits of hell, as far as you're concerned?
I ended up coming to that exact point when discussing Christianity with a American Christian I met while in Germany last year.
He didn't seem to see the issue with fundamentally evil people going to heaven if they believed whilst truly innocent and good natured people would be going to hell just because they couldn't convince themselves to accept blindly some unprovable bullshit.
(April 22, 2011 at 10:15 am)Godschild Wrote: Because I know there are Southern Baptists that believe they are saved yet they are as lost as last years Easter eggs. Going to church does not save a person, as for the Catholics I believe the leadership to be the ones who are lost, not all but many, ie. the priest that rape innocent boys. As far as I'm concerned these men should never ever see the outside of prison.
You are implying that YOU know what it takes to be saved, but that certain Southern Baptists do not not have this knowledge. They're obviously not true Christians, right?
As far as you're concerned, priests who rape innocent boys should never see the outside of prison, as long as they are alive. But don't you also believe that if while they are in prison, they "truly repent" of their "sins" and accept Jesus into their hearts, they will get to spend all eternity in the utopia of heaven? On the other hand, should a man who never committed a crime against his fellow men and lived a peaceful law-abiding life, but was never convinced to believe in your god, have to spend eternity in the fiery pits of hell, as far as you're concerned?
I ended up coming to that exact point when discussing Christianity with a American Christian I met while in Germany last year.
He didn't seem to see the issue with fundamentally evil people going to heaven if they believed whilst truly innocent and good natured people would be going to hell just because they couldn't convince themselves to accept blindly some unprovable bullshit.
It's sickening.
It is sickening. They cannot see the issue, or any of the other absurdities in their beliefs, because they are so blinded by their "faith".
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
April 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm (This post was last modified: April 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm by Minimalist.)
Hmmm... it took me o.13 seconds to find one of your pals - an Idiot-class xtian - to place Gandhi in hell.
Quote:Gandhi lacked grace. It remains up to God to judge but it stands that he is likely in hell. It is a place that every man deserves but not every man goes. Grace exists apart from doing some good works. Mercy does too. Man is still guilty for not being in the right relationship with God. Christ, as only God could, must take the punishment ment for us. Otherwise, the wrath of God remains on those who are born objects of wrath. Gandhi was outside of Christ. He was found outside of the church, which alone has salvation.
Such unfathomable arrogance from xtians is part of the reason I think you are all assholes.
What did Gandhi do wrong that he needed to be "sorry" for. Other than going to that last reception.
(April 23, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Watson Wrote: Yeah, 'cause how dare we forgive people for the things they've done if they're truly sorry, right?
Forgiving a kid who steals a candy bar is one thing. Forgiving a man who rapes your son is quite another. Some actions cannot be forgiven, regardless of the contrition of the perpetrator. Do you think that if a man shot and killed your wife, he should be allowed to go free if he is sorry enough? Or how about this: the guy who shoots your wife "accepts Jesus into his heart" while he is on death row. Then he is executed. Thirty years later, when you die and "go to heaven", you find the guy sitting on a cloud having lunch with your wife. Make sense to you?
"If there are gaps they are in our knowledge, not in things themselves." Chapman Cohen
"Shit-apples don't fall far from the shit-tree, Randy." Mr. Lahey
All arguments from emotion Strongbad, which is a poor basis for justice. You may never forgive a personal injustice... that isn't to say that you shouldn't.
