More protests Against The Theocratic Regime in Iran

[The Grand Nudger]

The mad king isn’t a populist Leo. I doubt there’s been a president who hates the people more in the entire history of the us. His entire schtick is fucking them over for the benefit of rich criminals.

[Leonardo17]

Ivan Denisovich:
 
   I am neither on these things. We are all free to express our viewpoints here. And I am starting to think that you are not reading my posts. Legally and in term of international law you are completely right. And you are right since George Bush (the father) started hitting Iraq in 1990.
 

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    I think that you should start reading Immanuel Kant’s book “Idea for a Universal History with a Cosmopolitan Purpose”. And don’t get too wordy on that one because it is a rather short book written at about the time of American independence.
 
   Kant says that there has to be something called “a society of nations”. So when there is someone like Saddam who uses chemical weapons on its own people, the society of nations can decide that this nation has lost its legitimacy and can intervene in that nation to bring back national sovereignty and the rule of law.
 
   One thing is for sure: We are not there yet.
 
   Legally speaking, there is actually nothing we could do if Hitler was reborn and became (once again) the führer of Germany.
 
   So I sort of see myself as a pragmatist of some sort. See in Libya there are actually two faction. One side is backed by European and Turkish force. The other by Russia and Arab countries (if I remember correctly). So in many places foreign forces do get involved into regional conflict. In fact Russia is all over Africa with its Wagner militias. I think that that’s what J.D. Vance was trying to say during his “the world is a tough space” speech 6 days ago.
 
   So we need solutions here. If nobody supports them what are Iranian (or Venezuelans) supposed to do about armed groups shooting on them? Armies (and all police forces) are meant to defend citizens. Not to kill and oppress them.
 
   And in a historical perspective: You can be the John Rambo of the planet and attack every authoritarian leader who is just being himself. But there are instances in which you can push things a little if you know what I mean.
 
   Again: My country has backed the new Syrian government (former ISIL members) in coordination with the US (under Joe Biden administration) and Europe. So today things are not that ugly and some Syrians are even returning to their countries.
 
   And More: I don’t think the US should have left Afghanistan. I think another solution had to be found there 2021.
 

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   So yes. You are right. But to me you are saying that there has to be a stronger international order in this world. And until then, we have to invent solutions ourselves which do not include taking over other countries for this or that reason – The US cannot take Canada or Greenland or even Panama –

But I want to comment on something else:
 

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Today a mosque burned in Iran (finally it’s not an empty accusation, they really did it).
 
   I want to say that of course I am sad to hear that a cult place (belonging to any religious affiliation), is a sacred place and should not be treated like a government building or something like that.
 
   But when you turn cult places into symbols, or indoctrination and political propaganda centers, or places that are used to make the population more sheep-like, nothing will (or should) stop demonstrators from torching those places.
 
   In fact Iranians are killing other Iranians right now. So whoever or whatever is using religion to polarize people like that and basically releases those man-made fanatics upon ordinary people is simply an evil person, group of persons and entity.
 

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    So if Bibi is backing the Iranian people against this kind of personalities… he is free to do so. Right now if Satan came up from Hades and started supporting these protesters I would salute him for that

[Ivan Denisovich]

 I am neither on these things. We are all free to express our viewpoints here. And I am starting to think that you are not reading my posts. Legally and in term of international law you are completely right. And you are right since George Bush (the father) started hitting Iraq in 1990.

I read your posts, they're just dumb. You're siding with fascist who pisses on international law. This time he kidnapped someone who you didn't like. If he will kidnap someone who you do like will you still cheer him?
 

So yes. You are right. But to me you are saying that there has to be a stronger international order in this world. And until then, we have to invent solutions ourselves which do not include taking over other countries for this or that reason – The US cannot take Canada or Greenland or even Panama –

Of course I'm right. It was not a situation that required more intelligence that hamster possess to judge accordingly. Fascists breaking international law are bad thing even when they kidnap unpopular presidents.

So if Bibi is backing the Iranian people against this kind of personalities… he is free to do so. Right now if Satan came up from Hades and started supporting these protesters I would salute him for that

When leader of rogue state committing genocide is supporting protesters then there is something fishy here. In any case he should be on trial not in position to offer any kind of support.

[Leonardo17]

1) No. I wouldn’t.
 

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Beside interventionism has its limits. It worked in Korea. It’s didn’t work in Vietnam. Huge resources and lives were lost in Afghanistan, basically for nothing. No one knows if the situation in Iraq will change for the better or not.
 
So you said it. The real solution is to promote the international world order instead of decimating it as Trump does.
 
I’m only reminding you that when Milosevic was putting Bosnian Muslims in concentration camps all that Europe did was to “condemn” these actions. And it was Bill Clinton (a democrat) who finally decided to intervene (together with NATO) with a UN centered “peacekeeping” mission there.
 
And look I’m not a political scientist. I’m only sharing what’s in my mind here.
 
2) I disagree with that one. 6 million is almost the number of Syrians who fled from their country during the civil war. So something is not normal there. Would you escape to Mexico because of D. Trump.
 
+ There is a problem with the populist leaders in our time. They may be acting like “fascists” but at the end of the day he is your elected president (who will probably no longer be in office two years from now).
 
And I’m not going to elaborate on this but these fear-based political approaches are a problem in almost all democratic countries. And that’s the way it is since the mid-1990’s.
 

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- Anyway:
 
The IRI has cut telephone communications with the outside world. Whatever it is that they are using, they seem to be able to even block Starlink to some degree. The death toll is estimated to be between 120 and 300. With one or two thousand people being detained.
 
- Religious fanaticism is simply evil. Religious dictatorships are also deeply evil state structures. This Khamenei is 86 years old. 86. If he lives for another 10 years, he will use these 10 years to torture people who could be his grandsons / granddaughters or great grandsons – great granddaughters.
 
In spirituality this is a state of the ego. It’s the “pharaoh consciousness”. The man probably thinks he knows what’s best for all of us. I’m simply glad not me nor anyone around me is in this state of consciousness.

[Leonardo17]

Let me correct myself. As of today the death toll is estimated to be in the thousands rather than in the hundreds. But no one knows exactly. These are only estimates. Here is the DW report on the situation on the ground:

[Ivan Denisovich]

1) No. I wouldn’t.

So you are not only foolish but also inconsistent, viewing the international law through the lens of your personal sympathies. At least you admit it so points for honesty I guess.
 

Beside interventionism has its limits. It worked in Korea. It’s didn’t work in Vietnam. Huge resources and lives were lost in Afghanistan, basically for nothing. No one knows if the situation in Iraq will change for the better or not.

What trump did wasn't "interventionism" but imperialist aggression against head of state of sovereign country which is something that you appear to have trouble with recognizing. You may agree with orange fascist that Maduro was narco mafia boss or whatever idiocy he or clowns surrounding him invented but that does not make trump black bag operation even iota less criminal.
 

I’m only reminding you that when Milosevic was putting Bosnian Muslims in concentration camps all that Europe did was to “condemn” these actions. And it was Bill Clinton (a democrat) who finally decided to intervene (together with NATO) with a UN centered “peacekeeping” mission there.

You seem to missed quite a few steps in your education if you can't differentiate between illegal snatch and grab and official NATO action that helped to stop ethnic cleansing. It was launched without UN approval but ultimately Security Council rejected the demand of Russia, Belarus and India for the cessation of the use of force against Yugoslavia.
 

And look I’m not a political scientist. I’m only sharing what’s in my mind here.

It's quite clear that you aren't one.
 

I disagree with that one. 6 million is almost the number of Syrians who fled from their country during the civil war. So something is not normal there. Would you escape to Mexico because of D. Trump.

Disagree all you want it does not make trump action legla, moral or positive in any way, shape or form.
 

There is a problem with the populist leaders in our time. They may be acting like “fascists” but at the end of the day he is your elected president (who will probably no longer be in office two years from now).

trump isn't populist unless you're using this term like talking heads in Poland tv where populism stands for "something bad". He is both fascist and imperialist which is yet another thing that you refuse to see, blinded by Lenin knows what. Fact that he is elected have no bearing on anything - Hitler was appointed chancellor legally (if with much backroom dealing) but none would be so dumb as to suggest that it excuse his crimes. trump being elected official is meaningless in this context as Americans can't empower him to break international law by electing him.

[Leonardo17]

Ivan Denisovich:
 
1) Let’s focus on facts here.
 

---

 
D. Trump did intervene in Venezuela, kidnapped Nicholas Maduro there and then convinced him for drug trafficking. What did he do after that?
- He started working with the remnants of the regime in a way that favors American interests.
That’s the typical scheme of American interventionism during most part of the 20th century and also through the 21st century.
This is why people are mobilizing to say that this is completely illegal.
 
But did you think for one second that this is what I am trying to say here?
 
- There is for instance a Starlink like technology. With low orbiting satellites you can unblock the internet connection of all smartphones in Iran (I forgot what the technology is called).
 
- Or you might think of Ukraine. Russia took Crimea in 2014. Then the Americans (and possibly Europeans) started preparing the country for a possible large scale attack from Russia. Than the Maidan protests happened. Then Russia attempted to take Ukraine in a day or two. Then they simply failed.
 

---

 
So All I am saying is that there are many many options on Iran right now. And not doing anything is the worst of them. And don’t worry. D. Trump is not an interventionist. I don’t know what he will do next but there will be probably no boots on the ground.
 
2) No, but that’s the way things work. You can’t just create a regime that is completely tyrannical and hope to go on with your actions indefinitely. Something will happen at some point. For Maduro this was D. Trump. For most dictators of the 80’s, it was 9/11 and Bush’s campaign that followed it.
 
Today they gathered all this mob in Iran chanting pro-regime slogans etc. None of this can last indefinitely. That regime is doomed even if you tried to keep it in place. Now if there are some people in some places doing things to accelerate things a little, that’s where my position is. That’s the only thing I said.
 
3) No I am trying to tell you that I am sort of “neutral” to the second while I condemn the first. But things do not always work the way they should work right? G.W: Bush’s attack on Afghanistan was largely criticized by many. Trump and Biden’s withdrawal was even more problematic.
 
As I said. What I support is greater respect of an international order and ultimately, the creation of a society of nations that will be the only authority in any type of interventionism.
 
4) Ok.
 
5) No it doesn’t. I would have preferred an intervention that brings back Marina Corina Machiado or another figure of the Venezuelan Opposition like Juan Guaido to organize free elections and leave the Venezuelan oil industry to the care of Venezuelans. That’s would have been a smarter move.
 
6) Yes you are right on that. And he is completely nuts on the issue of Greenland.
 

---

 
Fascism and Imperialism are separate issues. We’ve had truly fascist leaders before like Salazar in Portugal or Franco in Spain. And Imperialism truly existed structurally until the middle of the 20th century. In fact today’s world has inherited a lot from that second era.
 
Populism is a different issue. It’s a method of politics that seeks to unite the least informed majority of a democratic country, confuse them even further with your BS media and social media trolls, than manipulate them though their emotions using deep psychological issues like the fear of being invaded by other ethnic groups, being destroyed through some Satanic machinery (with conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory) and through basic religious, cultural or ethnic sentiments and feelings.
 
/ But that’s not true politics. Political parties are to be fair players and convince their electorate through reason and intelligent action plans.
 
Populist do not talk to you conscious mind. They are constantly talking to your subconscious mind. That’s a method that was invented by fascists actually.
 
…And we are sort of stuck with it for now. There are many people in all nations with a very low intelligence who will keep voting for these people no matter what. So we are the ones (the smarter ones) who are supposed to maintain some sort of dialogue with them and try to stop them from destroying our entire political systems. That’s our individual responsibility. And I am saying that because I’m almost sure that even if we repeat the mistakes of the Europeans in the 1930’s it won’t be that bad this time. All of us are smarter than the people of the 1930’s now.
 

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But yes. It’s not a very attractive picture is it? 

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

@Leonardo17

D. Trump is not an interventionist.

The good people of Venezuela would like a word.

Boru

[Ivan Denisovich]

Ivan Denisovich:
 
1) Let’s focus on facts here.
 

---

 
D. Trump did intervene in Venezuela, kidnapped Nicholas Maduro there and then convinced him for drug trafficking. What did he do after that?
- He started working with the remnants of the regime in a way that favors American interests.
That’s the typical scheme of American interventionism during most part of the 20th century and also through the 21st century.
This is why people are mobilizing to say that this is completely illegal.
 
But did you think for one second that this is what I am trying to say here?
 
- There is for instance a Starlink like technology. With low orbiting satellites you can unblock the internet connection of all smartphones in Iran (I forgot what the technology is called).
 
- Or you might think of Ukraine. Russia took Crimea in 2014. Then the Americans (and possibly Europeans) started preparing the country for a possible large scale attack from Russia. Than the Maidan protests happened. Then Russia attempted to take Ukraine in a day or two. Then they simply failed.
 

---

 
So All I am saying is that there are many many options on Iran right now. And not doing anything is the worst of them. And don’t worry. D. Trump is not an interventionist. I don’t know what he will do next but there will be probably no boots on the ground.
 
2) No, but that’s the way things work. You can’t just create a regime that is completely tyrannical and hope to go on with your actions indefinitely. Something will happen at some point. For Maduro this was D. Trump. For most dictators of the 80’s, it was 9/11 and Bush’s campaign that followed it.
 
Today they gathered all this mob in Iran chanting pro-regime slogans etc. None of this can last indefinitely. That regime is doomed even if you tried to keep it in place. Now if there are some people in some places doing things to accelerate things a little, that’s where my position is. That’s the only thing I said.
 
3) No I am trying to tell you that I am sort of “neutral” to the second while I condemn the first. But things do not always work the way they should work right? G.W: Bush’s attack on Afghanistan was largely criticized by many. Trump and Biden’s withdrawal was even more problematic.
 
As I said. What I support is greater respect of an international order and ultimately, the creation of a society of nations that will be the only authority in any type of interventionism.
 
4) Ok.
 
5) No it doesn’t. I would have preferred an intervention that brings back Marina Corina Machiado or another figure of the Venezuelan Opposition like Juan Guaido to organize free elections and leave the Venezuelan oil industry to the care of Venezuelans. That’s would have been a smarter move.
 
6) Yes you are right on that. And he is completely nuts on the issue of Greenland.
 

---

 
Fascism and Imperialism are separate issues. We’ve had truly fascist leaders before like Salazar in Portugal or Franco in Spain. And Imperialism truly existed structurally until the middle of the 20th century. In fact today’s world has inherited a lot from that second era.
 
Populism is a different issue. It’s a method of politics that seeks to unite the least informed majority of a democratic country, confuse them even further with your BS media and social media trolls, than manipulate them though their emotions using deep psychological issues like the fear of being invaded by other ethnic groups, being destroyed through some Satanic machinery (with conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory) and through basic religious, cultural or ethnic sentiments and feelings.
 
/ But that’s not true politics. Political parties are to be fair players and convince their electorate through reason and intelligent action plans.
 
Populist do not talk to you conscious mind. They are constantly talking to your subconscious mind. That’s a method that was invented by fascists actually.
 
…And we are sort of stuck with it for now. There are many people in all nations with a very low intelligence who will keep voting for these people no matter what. So we are the ones (the smarter ones) who are supposed to maintain some sort of dialogue with them and try to stop them from destroying our entire political systems. That’s our individual responsibility. And I am saying that because I’m almost sure that even if we repeat the mistakes of the Europeans in the 1930’s it won’t be that bad this time. All of us are smarter than the people of the 1930’s now.
 

---

 
But yes. It’s not a very attractive picture is it? 

trump sure isn't interventionist. He is a fascist and imperialist.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Ivan Denisovich:
 
1) Let’s focus on facts here.
 

---

 
D. Trump did intervene in Venezuela, kidnapped Nicholas Maduro there and then convinced him for drug trafficking. What did he do after that?
- He started working with the remnants of the regime in a way that favors American interests.
That’s the typical scheme of American interventionism during most part of the 20th century and also through the 21st century.
This is why people are mobilizing to say that this is completely illegal.
 
But did you think for one second that this is what I am trying to say here?
 
- There is for instance a Starlink like technology. With low orbiting satellites you can unblock the internet connection of all smartphones in Iran (I forgot what the technology is called).
 
- Or you might think of Ukraine. Russia took Crimea in 2014. Then the Americans (and possibly Europeans) started preparing the country for a possible large scale attack from Russia. Than the Maidan protests happened. Then Russia attempted to take Ukraine in a day or two. Then they simply failed.
 

---

 
So All I am saying is that there are many many options on Iran right now. And not doing anything is the worst of them. And don’t worry. D. Trump is not an interventionist. I don’t know what he will do next but there will be probably no boots on the ground.
 
2) No, but that’s the way things work. You can’t just create a regime that is completely tyrannical and hope to go on with your actions indefinitely. Something will happen at some point. For Maduro this was D. Trump. For most dictators of the 80’s, it was 9/11 and Bush’s campaign that followed it.
 
Today they gathered all this mob in Iran chanting pro-regime slogans etc. None of this can last indefinitely. That regime is doomed even if you tried to keep it in place. Now if there are some people in some places doing things to accelerate things a little, that’s where my position is. That’s the only thing I said.
 
3) No I am trying to tell you that I am sort of “neutral” to the second while I condemn the first. But things do not always work the way they should work right? G.W: Bush’s attack on Afghanistan was largely criticized by many. Trump and Biden’s withdrawal was even more problematic.
 
As I said. What I support is greater respect of an international order and ultimately, the creation of a society of nations that will be the only authority in any type of interventionism.
 
4) Ok.
 
5) No it doesn’t. I would have preferred an intervention that brings back Marina Corina Machiado or another figure of the Venezuelan Opposition like Juan Guaido to organize free elections and leave the Venezuelan oil industry to the care of Venezuelans. That’s would have been a smarter move.
 
6) Yes you are right on that. And he is completely nuts on the issue of Greenland.
 

---

 
Fascism and Imperialism are separate issues. We’ve had truly fascist leaders before like Salazar in Portugal or Franco in Spain. And Imperialism truly existed structurally until the middle of the 20th century. In fact today’s world has inherited a lot from that second era.
 
Populism is a different issue. It’s a method of politics that seeks to unite the least informed majority of a democratic country, confuse them even further with your BS media and social media trolls, than manipulate them though their emotions using deep psychological issues like the fear of being invaded by other ethnic groups, being destroyed through some Satanic machinery (with conspiracy theories like the great replacement theory) and through basic religious, cultural or ethnic sentiments and feelings.
 
/ But that’s not true politics. Political parties are to be fair players and convince their electorate through reason and intelligent action plans.
 
Populist do not talk to you conscious mind. They are constantly talking to your subconscious mind. That’s a method that was invented by fascists actually.
 
…And we are sort of stuck with it for now. There are many people in all nations with a very low intelligence who will keep voting for these people no matter what. So we are the ones (the smarter ones) who are supposed to maintain some sort of dialogue with them and try to stop them from destroying our entire political systems. That’s our individual responsibility. And I am saying that because I’m almost sure that even if we repeat the mistakes of the Europeans in the 1930’s it won’t be that bad this time. All of us are smarter than the people of the 1930’s now.
 

---

 
But yes. It’s not a very attractive picture is it? 

trump sure isn't interventionist. He is a fascist and imperialist.

The three are not mutually exclusive.

Boru