US Strikes on Iran (Operation Epic Fury)

[Ivan Denisovich]

It's not about "victory" or "defeat". It's about adding useful content to the conversation. I wish your contributions were better-informed historically and more apt with regard to American foreign policy.

This conversation is becoming a little toxic for me. I never said I was an expert on anything but I am trying to make useful contributions here.
 
You Friend Denisovich on the other hand is truly being a jerk by posting constant aggressive messages about me.

 

You're cunt who says USSR wasn't truly evil and moral midget fellating israel and always trying to find a way to minimize it's atrocities. I merely call you as I see you, you ignoramus.

If you want to make useful contributions you need to gain some actual education on the subjects you're speaking as you constantly write some inane bullshit.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Boru

[Leonardo17]

Paleophyte:
 
- Yes someone like Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris would have handled this situation very differently. For once, one of these two would not have alienated Europeans the way D. Trump did and whatever intervention would be done on Iran, it would have happened in a more coordinated hence more efficient manner than the current administration.
 
Yet: Something had to be done here. It was like Bashar Al Assad using chemical weapons on civilians or Russia moving in to take even more Ukrainian land after already taking Crimea in March 2014. So as I said. D. Trump was probably not wrong doing what he did. It’s probably more about how and with whom he did it than the very action itself.
 
I am hearing more US elite troops are being moved to the region. I simply hope that this wounded monster that is the IRI does not take down too many innocent lives with it as it is in the process of going under
 
Ivan Denisovich:
 
You’re a Jerk. Get out of my face.

[Ivan Denisovich]

I am hearing more US elite troops are being moved to the region. I simply hope that this wounded monster that is the IRI does not take down too many innocent lives with it as it is in the process of going under

I hope that both fascist warmongers who started this conflict will face appropriate consequences. Difference between us is such that I have morals, whereas you're ready to piss on common decency and international law because fascists attacked country you hate.

You’re a Jerk.

You're a cunt fellating genocidal regime and it seems to me a racist trash and a troll. Quite a combination I must admit.

Get out of my face.

Or what? Bitch all you like troll, I will point your idiocy and absolute lack of morals as long as it will be amusing me.

[Paleophyte]

- Yes someone like Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris would have handled this situation very differently. For once, one of these two would not have alienated Europeans the way D. Trump did and whatever intervention would be done on Iran, it would have happened in a more coordinated hence more efficient manner than the current administration.

Yeah, they wouldn't have done it. Do you see the rest of the world and how they're not doing it? That's how you handle it.
 

Yet: Something had to be done here.

No, it didn't. Just because you, personally, have a burr up your ass, doesn't mean that the world has to go to war. There are any number of oppressed minorities that you've never heard of and never given a shit about who have lived and died without the US going to war about them. That's probably not great for us as a species, but blowing them up to get their oil probably isn't a sane solution to anything.

It was like Bashar Al Assad using chemical weapons on civilians or Russia moving in to take even more Ukrainian land after already taking Crimea in March 2014. So as I said. D. Trump was probably not wrong doing what he did. It’s probably more about how and with whom he did it than the very action itself.

No, it very much isn't. There have been no weapons of mass destruction used. There have been no breaches of sovereignty, or there weren't until Trump started fucking around. This was a matter of internal oppression, which is a different flavour of horrible. This is much more like the Rohingya in Myanmar or the Uighur in China. Please try and get your analogies straight.

And Trumpledumbfuck was absolutely wrong in what he did. That's the whole point. You don't fix an oppressive regime by being an oppressive regime.
 

I simply hope that this wounded monster that is the IRI does not take down too many innocent lives with it as it is in the process of going under

Did you miss the part where they're winning? You're shockingly naive.

[Belacqua]

Paleophyte:
 
- Yes someone like Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris would have handled this situation very differently. 

It's all speculation, of course, but I wonder how a President Harris would have done things. 

One of her constant themes during the campaign was that Trump wasn't supportive enough of Israel, and that he was soft on Iran. Israel has escalated its violence since that time, but anyone paying attention has seen that its plan for decades has been killing and violent expansion. And this has had bi-partisan support in the US.

There's audio tape of Nixon complaining that Israel controls US foreign policy. It's been going on a long time. We don't really know why they chose this moment for its current obscene escalation. The fact that Trump is easily influenced is part of it, probably. But they are certainly aware that Iran is building its defenses to the point where they become more and more difficult to conquer. Nobody here can really say for sure. 

I think Harris ran an incompetent campaign, Democratic advisors and Senators are every bit as much in Israel's pocket as Republicans. Things no doubt would have played out differently, but whatever Israel did, it would still have the support of the US government. As it continues to have today.

[Deesse23]

I simply hope that this wounded monster that is the IRI does not take down too many innocent lives with it as it is in the process of going under

Who killed (the most) innocent Iranians in the past month?

[The Grand Nudger]

- Yes someone like Joe Biden and/or Kamala Harris would have handled this situation very differently. For once, one of these two would not have alienated Europeans the way D. Trump did and whatever intervention would be done on Iran, it would have happened in a more coordinated hence more efficient manner than the current administration.

Yeah, they wouldn't have done it. Do you see the rest of the world and how they're not doing it? That's how you handle it.

The alleged situation -was- handled.  There's no "would have" here.  The Obama administration had already crafted a working agreement signed on to by Iran, China, France, Russia, UK, Germany, and EU.  The mad king tore that up because it was yet another reminder that he would never be as good or worthy as the black man who made fun of his birther shit to his face then interrupted his reality tv show to announce he'd killed osama the day after that public humiliation.

Any other understanding of how we got here or what the mad king is doing comes from Reality B. The leader of the free world, with the most fearsome army man has ever created at his command, is a fundamentally insecure and racist little bitch with a pedo problem. That's both why iranians must die, and why regime change and disarmament will fail. His buddy benji called him up and hard sold him on bombing tehran like it was a slapchop set, act now, limited time offer, only while supplies last - and what could he do anyway? He's just a feeble old man with no thoughts of his own incapable of planning or foresight....besides, Marco seemed really into it!

[Leonardo17]

Ivan Denisovich:
 
- You seem to be angry at something. But I don’t even know you. So if there are fascists where send them my regards and go beat them if you like but leave me out of this ok?
 
- In the digital world, when something looks like something then it usually is something. So when someone is acting like a troll (antagonizing people he doesn’t know, making aggressive comments, try to start fights more than try to discuss real subjects) you will usually end up finding out that this person is truly a troll.
 
/So if that’s what you see in me after several years then you should report this to the administrators
 
- Ok but you do it on your own ok? I’m not going to engage in any serious discussion with you.
 
Paleophyte:
 
“Yeah, they wouldn't have done it. Do you see the rest of the world and how they're not doing it? That's how you handle it.”
 
- There is a huge range of tools between dimply watching as it happens and full military intervention. Europe (finally) putting the IRG on the list of terror organizations is on of such possible moves.
 
As I said, The Israel issue is an important issue in the US. Someone like Joe Biden would have found a middle way in which both Israel is protected and the Iran issue is handled without major economic consequences for all of the world. But would this have mean no war with Iran at all? – I’m not sure.
 
But if there was military intervention, it would be better coordinated with all regional countries + Europe supporting US troops etc.
 
“No, it didn't. Just because you, personally, have a burr up your ass, doesn't mean that the world has to go to war. There are any number of oppressed minorities that you've never heard of and never given a shit about who have lived and died without the US going to war about them. That's probably not great for us as a species, but blowing them up to get their oil probably isn't a sane solution to anything.”
 
- That’s not what I meant. I mean Iranians. How long can they fight bullets with their fists?
 
Did you see BrianBoru’s post above. The Senior Iranian official starts his threats and lies and provocations with “I the name of Allah the Provider and the Merciful”. And this man is part of a regime that harasses young women for not wearing their hijab properly.
 
- This “blowing people for oil” issue is also problematic. I know that even conservative Americans don’t want it. So maybe that’s why D. Trump is being so unclear about whatever his goals are and at what point he will decide to end the conflict.
 
But I can tell you this: Although a bit blurry, D. Trump did have a point on Greenland. I think he put pressure on Greenland so that they would agree to remain under Denmark’s protection because otherwise (yes) some other country could have decided to simply invade it at some point. That’s my personal theory. I have this theory in which D. Trump is neither stupid nor insane but that he wants everyone to believe he simply doesn’t have that sort of mental capacity
 
“No, it very much isn't. There have been no weapons of mass destruction used. There have been no breaches of sovereignty, or there weren't until Trump started fucking around. This was a matter of internal oppression, which is a different flavour of horrible. This is much more like the Rohingya in Myanmar or the Uighur in China. Please try and get your analogies straight.
 
And Trumpledumbfuck was absolutely wrong in what he did. That's the whole point. You don't fix an oppressive regime by being an oppressive regime.”
 
- But you still need a solution. The world is going to a place in which fewer and fewer people will be willing to tolerate this regimes atrocities. That includes for instance Gulf Countries. The 2023 Iran – Saudi Arabia rapprochement that was brokered by China simply went out in flames with this military intervention.
 
So as I said: Right now all we can do is to wait and see how the whole thing will unfold.
 
“Did you miss the part where they're winning? You're shockingly naive.”
 
- Yes sir I did. I am not willing to admit that someone who says “In the Name of God the Provider and the Merciful” and then murders its own (Muslim) people with AK-47’s can win. So if Trump + Netanyahu really completely “loose” in this I will have plenty of time to hate them for it later
 
Belaqua:
 
- Joe Biden was simply too old for a second term. While being highly speculative, I am sure that the Ukrainian issue would be in a little better shape (and it is not that bad at this point) and that she would have talked and listened to Europeans + all other actors in the region. So something better would eventually have been done about Iran too (And I don’t know what this could be).
 
- Harris had 0 chance at the height of the strength of the MAGA movement at her time. Now the MAGA movement is losing its momentum. I expect better results in the midterm. But (after D. Trump) there will have to be a less polarized US society with Republican and Democrat politicians who don’t hate each other as much as they do today.
 
I mean: Joe Biden signed a deal with Total Energy to build hundreds of offshore wind turbines in the east coast. Trump is undoing this deal and makes a new deal with Total do dig more oil and gas in the US.
 
Desse43:
 
- Starting from February 23 some 1400 people have been killed by the US-Israeli campaign.
 
- In January 7 and 8 the regime killed 30,000 of its people
https://time.com/7357635/more-than-30000...officials/
 
The number of deaths in 1989 Tianen square massacre was 2500 people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiana...d_massacre
 
In the “Red-Sunday” in St-Petersburg in 1905 only 250 people had died (And it went to history books as Red-Sunday)
 
Another element I want to add: You know that Istanbul is on the crossroads between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. After WWI we signed a treaty (Montreux Treaty – 1936) according to which we must allow all trading and passenger ship to pass through the phosphorous without any condition + allow military ships too as long as they alert us in advance.
 
So the IRI’s closing of the Straits is also completely illegal.
 
And this is serious. Nothing is happening to western nations yet (at least nothing very dramatic) but what does the Tuktuk driver in Hanoi do? – He either stops working or he stops eating.
 
 
 
I Think GrandNudgers comments sums it up. If D. Trump wanted a deal, then why did he break the already existing deal?
 
Besides (correct me if I am wrong) isn’t he the one who in his first term initiated the retreat from Afghanistan and in 2020 Joe Biden had no choice but to carry it out?
 
I think (and I might be wrong) that the US could have stayed there with a minimal military resources and simply stay there as they stayed in South Korea or Japan for instance.

[awty]

*Troll watch activated.