If there's no God, nothing is right or wrong

[Ravenshire]

You obviously don't understand logic or logical fallacies. By stating without 'x' you cannot have 'y' you are implying that with 'x' you can have 'y.' I am simply pointing out that there are no objective standards of morality with our without your gawd. Providing (or manufacturing) evidence of something that doesn't exist is usually the purview if the religious, not the irreligious. If you can't be honest in your arguments, which you have not been, you really shouldn't be accusing others of logical fallacies you obviously don't understand and probably wouldn't recognize if you actually saw one.

Since you've gone to such lengths to avoid the "with gawd" side of it, why are you so determined that we show some evidence for objective morality without your gawd, because quite honestly, if you're not trying to claim that gawd gives us that then I can't see why in the ever loving fuck you're devoting so much time and effort to it.

Still a tu quoque fallacy, plus a red herring, since I have made no claims or comments about a deity. Learn some logic

You are obviously hiding behind semantics, with your "I never said..." bullshit. Why don't you quit with the bullshit, quit with the bad logic, quit with mis-labeling everything you don't personally agree with as a fallacy, and get to your fucking point already. Your rampant dishonesty is getting tiresome.

[Paleophyte]

Nobody is obligated to observe any laws other than the ones of physics. As amply demonstrated by this long list of people who clearly didn't.

So then there's no objective moral values? If people are not obligated, or it's voluntary, then there's no objective moral standard. Meaning, you can follow it or skip it. If you break the law of the land, you will face consequences from the penal system if caught. However, there's no consequence for breaking these so-called objective moral laws based on truth as long as you don't get caught. If you don't get caught, you owe no one an explanation. Therefore, no moral obligations exist.

That's like saying there's no nail just because you missed and hit your thumb instead. Simply because people aren't obliged to observe a law doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And there's a difference between being obliged to follow something, facing legal consequences when you don't, and there being no consequences at all. You seem to be conflating these.

[Paleophyte]

Still a tu quoque fallacy, plus a red herring, since I have made no claims or comments about a deity. Learn some logic

You are obviously hiding behind semantics, with your "I never said..." bullshit. Why don't you quit with the bullshit, quit with the bad logic, quit with mis-labeling everything you don't personally agree with as a fallacy, and get to your fucking point already. Your rampant dishonesty is getting tiresome.

Given the title of the thread, he isn't even managing that.

[The Architect Of Fate]

Is this clown still playing word games, pretending he’s not trying to slip Christian apologetics in through the backdoor, and shouting “fallacy” at everything?Okay, at this point it's masochism on his part .

[The Architect Of Fate]

Still a tu quoque fallacy, plus a red herring, since I have made no claims or comments about a deity. Learn some logic

You are obviously hiding behind semantics, with your "I never said..." bullshit. Why don't you quit with the bullshit, quit with the bad logic, quit with mis-labeling everything you don't personally agree with as a fallacy, and get to your fucking point already. Your rampant dishonesty is getting tiresome.

If he did, it would the entire game he’s playing, putting his god-botherer ethics under scrutiny, and he knows those don’t hold up very well.

[Paleophyte]

I guess this sort of dishonesty is what you get when you're ashamed of your faith.

[The Grand Nudger]

If my opinion is true then it is true everywhere in the world?  

How can your opinion be true? Who would decide that it is true under atheism?

"...as many other posters have already said, nothing about a god is truthmaking for moral realism"

I have never made any claims about truthmaking from a god. Just that under atheism there cannot be objective moral values. It's a different debate. I'm making a commentary on atheism, not theism. So bringing up anything within theism is a red herring for now. If you or others can admit or grant that there cannot be objective moral values without a deity,l then we can move on to the other debate.

 How can my opinion be true?  In the same way that any opinion is true.  Recall - I asked you to consider whether or not I'm a poor golfer.  

You contend that some moral monster lived his best life.

I say that he was a moral monster regardless of how he felt about his life.

Which of us has it right, in your estimation?

You're just plainly wrong about atheism. There really isn't much else to say about this. Under atheism or under theism, there could be objective morals. Under atheism or under theism, there could be subjective morals.

[The Grand Nudger]

My commentary is about atheism, not theism. 

...and you're wrong.  In fact. That's that, right? You and I and ayone else can continue to have disputes about the proper ethical system to adopt...but you were just plain and simply wrong with the claim you came in with. I'm sorry, but theres no point in going any further unless you're willing to acknowledge that the sun rises in the east. Right and wrong are not empty sets, regardless of whether or not gods exist.

[Deesse23]

Unfortunately, you wrote the word "god" with a capital "G" in the thread title and your opening post, referring to your christian god. You didnt say "without a god". You can lie all the time on this forum, but you cant beat your christian habits all the time.


You do think objective morals exist, and you think they come from your god. Your mod is to push as hard as you can to make anyone agree that without a god (small "g") objective morals dont exist*, only to claim your God (capital "G") is the source of objective morals in the next step. How often do you think we have seen this script in the past 15 years? Please stop pretending its about anything else but that.
 
Demonstrate your god exists
and
that objective morals exist
or fuck off

The truth is (in your theist worldview): Objective morals can exist without your god. Ask any Muslim.


* although they dont exist too with your or any other god. Have you finally educated yourself about objective morals? Looks like you didnt.

You haven't demonstrated there can be objective morality under atheism, which is the topic I posted. Switching to "provide evidence" is a red herring fallacy. So you fuck off, moron

You haven't addressed any of my complaints. I wonder why.
You didn't even deny that you tried to slip your Christian god into this from the start


Did you talk to a Muslim yet about his gods objective morals?
Did you educate yourself about objective morals?
Did you figure that shouting tu quoque or red herring does not magically make your terrible arguments and lies go away?

So much for you to learn, correct or apologize for, but you decided to go for a cheap insult. Do I really look like I am going to be impressed by being insulted by somebody like you?

Is that shitty moral argument all you could come up with after FIFTEEN years!? Please tell me it ain't so.

You could have introduced yourself, explained what you did in the meantime, tell us about about your journey. You could have told us why you believe in the Christian god, after all what is his enough to convince you could be good enough to convince others. Or was it...some personal experience? Did God help you to find your car keys? It surely wasn't something like the moral argument that convinced you of Christianity, was it?

But no, you came with blazing guns, a terrible argument and dishonesty, and now wonder about the pushback.

What a role model of a Christian you are.

[The Architect Of Fate]

This fool keeps saying under atheism as if atheism is an ideology, philosophy, or worldview, but it isn’t. Nothing is "under Atheism " or " according to Atheism.