Iran is a weird fucking place...

[Minimalist]

Do you know how this affects a child's behavior when reach adulthood?

Apparently they become sanctimonious twats.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Ruhollah old boy, if they will let you out,I invite you to to spend some time in Australia. I'll be happy to show you around as my guest. Truly.

I agree there may have been some ignorant remarks about Iran in this thread,but equally, you have made some very ignorant comments about western culture

In Australia, illegitimacy is not a stigma,and the child has all the rights under the law as a legitimate child.Eg: inheritance and child support.

Single parents of both sexes can be paid a pension until the child is 12. The average time a person receives the single parent pension here is 18 months. Here,on divorce, it is most commonly the mother who keeps the children,not the father. Most women in Australia choose to work, that includes single mothers.

The world you describe DID exist here until about 25-30 years ago. I grew up in that world. I am more delighted than I can express that I longer live in that world.


QUESTION: just curious; is the name 'Ruhollah' a common one? I wouldn't know.The only other person of whom I've heard with that name is that hero of the Iranian revolution, the Grand Ayatollah Sayed Ruhollah Mostavi Mosavi Khomeini

[Anomalocaris]

Close allies of Iran‘s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, have been accused of using supernatural powers to further his policies amid an increasingly bitter power struggle between him and the country’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

Several people said to be close to the president and his chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, have been arrested in recent days and charged with being “magicians” and invoking djinns (spirits).

Ayandeh, an Iranian news website, described one of the arrested men, Abbas Ghaffari, as “a man with special skills in metaphysics and connections with the unknown worlds”.

http://www.menwithfoilhats.com/2011/05/i...ack-magic/

And this is in one of the most educated Islamic societies?

So? Ronald Reagan, the man with an itchy finger on 30,000 nuclear warheads, consulted astrologers through his wife. What's more scary?

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...-2,00.html

---

Islam - slightly more insane than Christianity ....... if that's even possible.

Slightly?

Islam pretends its world view is compatible with its world, which is stuck in the 7th century. Christianity imagines its world view in compatible with the 21st century. Which is more insane?

[Doubting Thomas]

Any country that arrests 14 squirrels for espionage has got to be completely batshit insane. Consider also their idea of capital punishment by building a wall and pushing it over on the condemned person. Who's in charge of their justice system over there, Wile E. Coyote?

[ruhollah]

It is wedlock, no t and no hyphen. Don't be daft. Babies can't have chips on their shoulders. Furthermore, I do know how being "illegitimate" affects a child's behavior when they reach adulthood. The answer is that it affects them not at all. These children may very well have both parents raising them in the same home. They are simply not married. What affects children are shitty, abusive parents who don't know how to deal with having children. That can happen no matter what their parents' marital status.

I apologize for the spelling mistake, thanks for correcting me.

Look the point I was making is that a child should be raised by both of his/her parents. Now even if parents are divorce, the child can still see both parents and get support they deserve.

Now in the case of illegitimate children, majority are born to a young mother who either doesn't know who the father is or the father denies the child is his. These mothers were essentially screwed over by a boy who is a coward that won't take responsibility.

Now majority of mothers who decide not to abort (which is another subject altogether) are now forced to put their careers on hold and start looking for work or social support so their child doesn't grow up hungry.

If you think that it's okay for a young mother to struggle like this, then I pity you.

That was an insanely sexist and biased remark. I forgive you, but only because you obviously live in a world where women can't work. In the western societies you so despise, women can raise their own children. Furthermore, and this is a big furthermore, children born out of wedlock are not always raised by just their mothers or even one parent. They may also go on to be adopted by a man or woman who loves them. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You obviously find it convenient to make use of stereotypical statements to make a point.

Do you know what country invented human's right? In particular the right to work for all humans.

I didn't say adoption is bad. In fact it is much better than a child being an orphan raised by a social institution. However the problem is these kids feel that something is wrong with them and that is why their parents left them. Or they feel jealous of other kids with parents. These kind of feelings can be used to justify crimes they commit when they get older.

Oh, and I know a woman who is raising three children and going to med school. That blows your biased blanket statement right out of the water.

Can you tell me more about this friend of yours. If she is divorce then it is different than the single-mother situation I discussed above. Is she getting child support? Is she taking out loans for med school?

[Shell B]

If you think that it's okay for a young mother to struggle like this, then I pity you.

Don't waste your pity. I think people make their own choices. These mothers you are so concerned about made a choice to get pregnant, just as much as the men who abandon them. Let us not forget that plenty of fathers have to raise children alone as well.

You obviously find it convenient to make use of stereotypical statements to make a point.

That is an interesting remark to make after the heaps of stereotypes you just spewed.

Do you know what country invented human's right? In particular the right to work for all humans.

No country "invented" human rights or the right to work for all humans. That has been a concept since the dawn of humanity. The problem is, religion and laws derived from religion suppressed women. Now, think about that before you make some random claim that a Muslim country "invented" the right to work. I will concede that Iraq was once a very advanced country, but I do believe that was before the "invention" of Islam.

I didn't say adoption is bad. In fact it is much better than a child being an orphan raised by a social institution. However the problem is these kids feel that something is wrong with them and that is why their parents left them. Or they feel jealous of other kids with parents. These kind of feelings can be used to justify crimes they commit when they are older.

I will not argue that being adopted is often hard for people to come to terms with. However, that has nothing to do with the merit of a society, which was the initial point you were trying to make. If you can produce concrete statistics that say adopted kids commit more crimes and that there are more adopted kids in the U.S. than anywhere else, then I might say this point has a place in this discussion. For now, it really does not.

Can you tell me more about this friend of yours. If she is divorce then it is different than the single-mother situation I discussed above. Is she getting child support? Is she taking out loans for med school?

She is my sister, so no, I will not tell you more about her. I will say that being divorced is no different from being a single mother or father in many cases. Child support is irrelevant, given the fact that, married or not, women get child support for children when the father is alive and able to be found. Loans are irrelevant as well, given that they are loans and not welfare. Single women, divorced women and women without children can all get these kinds of loans. They all have to pay them back.

[ruhollah]

QUESTION: just curious; is the name 'Ruhollah' a common one? I wouldn't know.The only other person of whom I've heard with that name is that hero of the Iranian revolution, the Grand Ayatollah Sayed Ruhollah Mostavi Mosavi Khomeini

Ruhollah is a nickname meaning "a spirit from god"...

It is usually reserved for those who are very pious, honest, kind-hearted, ...etc.

Jesus can be called Ruhollah.


However in my case, I chose the name cause it sounds cool in English.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Now in the case of illegitimate children, majority are born to a young mother who either doesn't know who the father is or the father denies the child is his.

There you go again, with another stupidly ignorant statement. That is simply not the case in my country.

(1) a putative father may be required to under go DNA testing which gives a result of 98%+ accuracy and is accepted by the courts..

(2) By law,a woman claiming a single parent pension MUST claim child support from the father. A claim of "I don't know who the father is " will seldom be accepted. Again partly because of DNA testing.

(3) The majority of single mothers are over 25 years.

How do I know these things for a fact? Well as it turns out,I worked for our federal department of Social Security for over 25 years. I actually made decisions about payment of a range of payments,including the single parent pension.


Your continuing insistence on making ignorant generalisations makes you appear closed minded and rather stupid.

Sorry, I'm bored with you now.

[ruhollah]

No country "invented" human rights or the right to work for all humans. That has been a concept since the dawn of humanity. The problem is, religion and laws derived from religion suppressed women. Now, think about that before you make some random claim that a Muslim country "invented" the right to work. I will concede that Iraq was once a very advanced country, but I do believe that was before the "invention" of Islam.

What are you talking about??? What about the slave trades the Europeans were conducting. While African tribes are being hunted down in their homeland Africa, they were treated with respect and gratitude in the Muslim nations.

Also, if you study history you would find that there was indeed a nation that invented human rights and was ahead of its time compared to the nations in Europe.

I will not argue that being adopted is often hard for people to come to terms with. However, that has nothing to do with the merit of a society, which was the initial point you were trying to make. If you can produce concrete statistics that say adopted kids commit more crimes and that there are more adopted kids in the U.S. than anywhere else, then I might say this point has a place in this discussion. For now, it really does not.

Its logic, however a simple google search can bring up news article on such studies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...crime.html
http://www.newser.com/story/85412/after-...raits.html

and finally this site should have loads of stats
http://www.marriagedebate.com/up.php

She is my sister, so no, I will not tell you more about her. I will say that being divorced is no different from being a single mother or father in many cases. Child support is irrelevant, given the fact that, married or not, women get child support for children when the father is alive and able to be found. Loans are irrelevant as well, given that they are loans and not welfare. Single women, divorced women and women without children can all get these kinds of loans.

But sometimes the father is alive and denys the child is theirs, or the mother doesn't know who the child is (one-night stand), or she was drunk when the incident happened. Teenage pregnancy is a huge problem in US and the western nations.

Now speaking of the loans, the reason I asked is because that is the only way I can see a young single parent being able to afford living costs for their children while going to school with no help of child-support from the father. Divorced children at least get support from both parents, illegitimate do not. Do you get me? And so when a mother goes for a loan that is extra burden on her now...and some mothers are strong and can do it, but the sad truth is some can't and need the support of their own parents. This in turn becomes a burden on them because they have to cut back on their retirement fund just so their grandchild can grow up without being malnourished. It triggers anger and depression throughout the whole family. This can be solved by marriage or some form of contract so both parties take responsibility on whatever outcome.

---

Now in the case of illegitimate children, majority are born to a young mother who either doesn't know who the father is or the father denies the child is his.

There you go again, with another stupidly ignorant statement. That is simply not the case in my country.

(1) a putative father may be required to under go DNA testing which gives a result of 98%+ accuracy and is accepted by the courts..

(2) By law,a woman claiming a single parent pension MUST claim child support from the father. A claim of "I don't know who the father is " will seldom be accepted. Again partly because of DNA testing.

(3) The majority of single mothers are over 25 years.

How do I know these things for a fact? Well as it turns out,I worked for our federal department of Social Security for over 25 years. I actually made decisions about payment of a range of payments,including the single parent pension.


Your continuing insistence on making ignorant generalizations makes you appear closed minded and rather stupid.

Sorry, I'm bored with you now.

1. How often does this happen in practice. DNA tests takes months, what does the mother do in the meantime? Who is paying for these DNA tests? The taxpayers? Because if that is the case, then it reassures my point that illegitimate children are a burden on the whole society.

2. If such claims are seldom to be accepted, then your statistics are skewed!???? Those mothers wouldn't submit an application in the first place. Its kind of like the CPI numbers that the government puts out every month. They pick and choose what goes into the CPI so they are overly-optimistic which in turn gives the federal reserve good enough reasons to monetize the nation's heavy debt.

3. Do you mean the majority of YOUR pension-recipients are over the age of 25. See point 2.

Talk to average citizens, business owners in your neighborhood and ask them if funding the federal department of Social Security is a good enough justification for paying high taxes.

[Shell B]

What are you talking about??? What about the slave trades the Europeans were conducting. While African tribes are being hunted down in their homeland Africa, they were treated with respect and gratitude in the Muslim nations.

You are reacting to things I did not say. Did I say slave trades never happened and that only Europeans were nice while Muslims are horrible? Allow me to clear something up. I am not against Islam or Christianity. I am against people who hurt other people and deny them freedom for selfish reasons.

Also, if you study history you would find that there was indeed a nation that invented human rights and was ahead of its time compared to the nations in Europe.

Incidentally, I do study history. What you need to do is look at the entirety of human history. Women working is no construct of a single society. It is a concept that has existed since the dawn of man. Do you think cave women sat in their caves all day doing nothing? Just because one country (you should probably be clear of which country you speak) was further ahead than all European countries, at some point, does not mean that they "invented" human rights. If human rights is even a tangible thing, it is impossible to invent. The very essence of human rights is that they are innate.

ts logic, however a simple google search can bring up news article on such studies:

It is not logic. It is speculation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...crime.html
http://www.newser.com/story/85412/after-...raits.html

and finally this site should have loads of stats
http://www.marriagedebate.com/up.php

None of these sites quotes a study. Furthermore, none of these sites make a comparison between foster or adopted children and children of married couples. You first source was a politician. Your second source actually had statistics, but they made no helpful comparisons and your last source is the site of some lady who is overly concerned with other people's business.

But sometimes the father is alive and denys the child is theirs, or the mother doesn't know who the child is (one-night stand), or she was drunk when the incident happened. Teenage pregnancy is a huge problem in US and the western nations.

If the father is alive and denies the child is his, the court will order a DNA test. If the mother does not know who the father is, then that is her problem. She is not a victim if she was not raped.

Now speaking of the loans, the reason I asked is because that is the only way I can see a young single parent being able to afford living costs for their children while going to school with no help of child-support from the father. Divorced children at least get support from both parents, illegitimate do not. Do you get me?

Do you imagine it is impossible for a woman to have money of her own? That is not the only way. Don't be absurd.

And so when a mother goes for a loan that is extra burden on her now...and some mothers are strong and can do it, but the sad truth is some can't and need the support of their own parents.

No, she can get a better paying job with the right education. It is only a burden if she drops out or chooses the wrong education path.

This in turn becomes a burden on them because they have to cut back on their retirement fund just so their grandchild can grow up without being malnourished. It triggers anger and depression throughout the whole family. This can be solved by marriage or some form of contract so both parties take responsibility on whatever outcome.

Dude, marriage is not the savior of all things parental. Some couples are better off not marrying. You really think that a couple that hates each other should get married in spite of this because of a child? You think that is better for the child? That is absolutely ridiculous. Even a contract is ridiculous. These are personal matters that should be dealt with personally by the parties involved.