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A question about original sin.
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 (August 18, 2011 at 9:03 pm)C Rod Wrote:(August 18, 2011 at 8:28 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Again, C, was that supposed to make me feel the fuzzy warmth of god? You are as fucked up as your god, Crud. 
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart "You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane 
You already stated that you are not sure that the punishment is deserved, which means you cannot be sure that it is justice.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(August 18, 2011 at 11:54 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: You already stated that you are not sure that the punishment is deserved, which means you cannot be sure that it is justice. I dont think i stated that. The nations went against God. They got what they deserve, it is justice. I dont agree that 'we should kill people, who kill people, to show that killing people is wrong.' It could be uncomfortable, that doesnt mean that it was injustice.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart "You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
As long as god is swinging the sword? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 19, 2011 at 7:57 pm)Rhythm Wrote: As long as god is swinging the sword? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma The thinking still fares that God is real and made us. If the moral code stands apart from him, he is still our creator and will enforce said moral code and dominance over what is rightly his. Both crimes against the moral code and denial of said creator are just, for all the power is his and he is deserving of it.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart "You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane RE: A question about original sin.
August 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2011 at 10:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Pretty sure you stopped midway through a sentence in that link when it finally (and thankfully) seemed to agree with you. You have some "fare thinking" that god is real and created us, there's a thread for that. Have at it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: A question about original sin.
August 19, 2011 at 10:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2011 at 10:34 pm by C Rod.)
(August 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Pretty sure you stopped midway through a sentence in that link when it finally (and thankfully) seemed to agree with you. You have some "fare thinking" that god is real and created us, there's a thread for that. Have at it. I read the first little introduction. Them came to a conclusion on my own. Who would thought it would be something somebody has already thought? Could not choice be the natural order of things. I also like what Roger said, "God neither conforms to nor invents the moral order. Rather His very nature is the standard for value." I just didnt want to state "God is real and made us". Seems more inconsiderate, given your position.
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart "You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane RE: A question about original sin.
August 19, 2011 at 10:42 pm
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2011 at 10:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yeah that was a good response, of course, Rogers response led to a re-organization of the dilemna which was even more difficult to escape.
Is God's character the way it is because it is good or is God's character good simply because it is God's character? (Michael Martin I believe, some poster will probably know better than me if I'm incorrect in the attribution.) Don't worry about being considerate based on my position CRod. If you're holding onto something that you believe is a persuasive argument or piece of evidence, take it to the evidence thread. It's not like the state of the cosmos gives a shit whether or not I'm offended. Point of all of this, is that you're assuming A that god exists, and B that somehow he sets the moral order by which men can be judged, even unto death. I'm only pointing out to you that these are your assumptions, but not based in anything even closely resembling fact. When you say things like "those people got what they deserved" it just comes off as cruel and pointless. Why did they deserve it, who did they go against?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(August 18, 2011 at 10:59 pm)C Rod Wrote:(August 18, 2011 at 10:49 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote: C Rod reminds of a woman who gets beaten by her husband, and when the cops show up, says she deserved it.Im not saying i deserve it or even want it but i feel it plays a role in justice. Here C Rod, god's punishment is being compared to an abusive husband which you then say you are not sure you deserve. Maybe it was inadvertent, but you are saying you are not sure god's punishment is just.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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