Being an Atheist parent in a Christian land

[frankiej]

You say you explain things in a way that your children can understand and help them choose for themselves, then you show them a verse in the bible about dashing the heads of children on stones. If you were truly being fair, perhaps you would share the verses that you exposed your children to with their father and he would counter with something like this: "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

I'm sorry, but that does not counter it. In no way does it take away from the bad things.

[Minimalist]

I'm just trying to avoid your child turning into an 8 year old Minimalist ...... I mean c'mon nobody want's that right?

Do you really want him to be in his first day in Religious studies class and when the teacher say's "So now who want's to learn about Jesus?" the kid says "Fk Jesus, he's a creep who's into S&M, whips and bondage!!" ....... no.

Actually, that sounds just about ideal. Nip this jesus shit in the bud, I say!

[Erinome]

Children trust their parents to give them an accurate view of things religious and moral. You say you explain things in a way that your children can understand and help them choose for themselves, then you show them a verse in the bible about dashing the heads of children on stones. If you were truly being fair, perhaps you would share the verses that you exposed your children to with their father and he would counter with something like this: "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

What is the reason for encouraging a 4 year old to demand proof? Does your 4 year old have the ability to define proof? Won't the child come and ask you what proof means and see if the answer that was given to them, would satisfy you? Adults know that children are easily impressionable, they copy our speech without knowing what it means before they can choose between right and wrong. Wouldn't it be fair to ask that your children not be taken to church until they are old enough to decide if they wanted to attend church? My mother never planted any religion in my mind as the best, as I discovered the religions she allowed me to ask questions, then she gave me her reasons for her belief. I admired my mother therefore I wanted to become more like her. Will your children admire you when they learn from someone else they love and respect that you scared them away from the bible, for the sake of your own beliefs and not because you actually wanted them to choose?

What is fair for the children? What is the best way to make sure they are not forced to believe if they don't want to? And shouldn't you let them believe if they do want to?

Yes, my daughter knows what it means to prove something. I conducted a crude, but simple lesson for them about evidence earlier this year. I told them to turn around, and when they were turned, I place an old treasure troll doll on the table and took a picture with my phone, then quickly hid the doll out of sight. When they turned around, I told them that there had just been a pink haired troll on the table, and being taught to be skeptical, they didn't believe me. So I showed them the picture and then had a discussion about evidence.

Children are not incapable of being taught such concepts, but it requires teaching them. The reason for encouraging them to demand proof is so they're not just willing to accept whatever load of crap they're given by anyone.

I didn't scare them away from the bible, the bible itself repels them. Until I was 19, I never knew there were such atrocities in the bible, and I will never forget how sick I felt after reading Deuteronomy. I was pissed that I had been raised to believe that the bible was a guide for life, when in fact, it is a book of blood in the name of god. How could my mother lie to me?

Why does teaching of morals, love, and respect have to come from that book? I am a moral person, as are many atheists, and we are moral because we want to be moral. I would never lead in the massacre of towns full of women and children, but Moses did- in the name of God. I think it's safe to say we're all better people without morals like that.

I do not insist that they are to believe one way or another. By instilling in them skepticism, and nurturing their critical thinking skills, they will one day be able to find their own path, based upon questioning and a gathering of facts. Do I think they will be atheists? Probably. Is that bad? Hell no.

They're very kind, very loving children, just not eaters of bull.

---

The last thing Christian parents want is for their children to be critical thinkers.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

Except when it smashes children's heads against rocks. Roger?

[Minimalist]

Children are not incapable of being taught such concepts, but it requires teaching them. The reason for encouraging them to demand proof is so they're not just willing to accept whatever load of crap they're given by anyone.

Oddly, Alei, theist adults do seem incapable of being taught such concepts. Doubtlessly the result of childhood indoctrination which they have been unable to overcome.

[Erinome]

Yes, but we know it can be overcome! I think smart adults whom cling to faith are simply scared to let it go. It's a shame that none of them will get to feel this overwhelming freedom that comes with letting it go and knowing there is nothing to fear.

[Cinjin]

Children trust their parents to give them an accurate view of things religious and moral. You say you explain things in a way that your children can understand and help them choose for themselves, then you show them a verse in the bible about dashing the heads of children on stones. If you were truly being fair, perhaps you would share the verses that you exposed your children to with their father and he would counter with something like this: "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

Fair enough. Tell you what I'll pledge right now to make that a practice in my home if all your Sunday school teachers do the same thing. Every time they teach about the sweet love of god saving Noah and his family or Jesus suffering the little children, I want them to tell a story about the Biblical atrocities peppered throughout both the old and new testaments. What?!? They won't do that?!?!? shocking.

What is the reason for encouraging a 4 year old to demand proof? Does your 4 year old have the ability to define proof? Won't the child come and ask you what proof means and see if the answer that was given to them, would satisfy you?

Really? That's like asking what is the reason for encouraging a child to recite letters and numbers. Because his future counts on it! No, he probably will not grasp the concept in whole, that doesn't mean that the lesson you are attempting to teach is not taking hold. Actually, your whole point is entirely hypocritical because everyone knows the very reason for having Sunday school teachers is to begin the process of indoctrination. If anything, christians are many times worse that any atheist every could be about attempting to teach concepts far above the level of preschooler. (By 100 fold!)

Will your children admire you when they learn from someone else they love and respect that you scared them away from the bible, for the sake of your own beliefs and not because you actually wanted them to choose?

You made a classic mistake here when you wrote "for the sake of your own beliefs" and you added "not because you actually wanted them to choose", which of course is your own bias leaping up out of your own judgmental condition. There is no way you can possibly know what anyone's true motivations are, and yet because we don't believe in your god, you assume that all our motivations are somehow related to his undoing. MAYBE we just simply want our children to look at things as objectively as possibly - and that of course includes your silly Bible.

What is the best way to make sure they are not forced to believe if they don't want to?

Don't let them go get brainwashed week after week in a religion that can't even agree on dogmas inside their own community!

And shouldn't you let them believe if they do want to?

Absolutely, and someday, when he tells me what he believes, I will love him no matter what. Meanwhile, I will teach him to analyze and deem worthy that which he is to encounter throughout his life.

[salty]

Children trust their parents to give them an accurate view of things religious and moral. You say you explain things in a way that your children can understand and help them choose for themselves, then you show them a verse in the bible about dashing the heads of children on stones. If you were truly being fair, perhaps you would share the verses that you exposed your children to with their father and he would counter with something like this: "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

What is the reason for encouraging a 4 year old to demand proof? Does your 4 year old have the ability to define proof? Won't the child come and ask you what proof means and see if the answer that was given to them, would satisfy you? Adults know that children are easily impressionable, they copy our speech without knowing what it means before they can choose between right and wrong. Wouldn't it be fair to ask that your children not be taken to church until they are old enough to decide if they wanted to attend church? My mother never planted any religion in my mind as the best, as I discovered the religions she allowed me to ask questions, then she gave me her reasons for her belief. I admired my mother therefore I wanted to become more like her. Will your children admire you when they learn from someone else they love and respect that you scared them away from the bible, for the sake of your own beliefs and not because you actually wanted them to choose?

What is fair for the children? What is the best way to make sure they are not forced to believe if they don't want to? And shouldn't you let them believe if they do want to?

Yes, my daughter knows what it means to prove something. I conducted a crude, but simple lesson for them about evidence earlier this year. I told them to turn around, and when they were turned, I place an old treasure troll doll on the table and took a picture with my phone, then quickly hid the doll out of sight. When they turned around, I told them that there had just been a pink haired troll on the table, and being taught to be skeptical, they didn't believe me. So I showed them the picture and then had a discussion about evidence.

Children are not incapable of being taught such concepts, but it requires teaching them. The reason for encouraging them to demand proof is so they're not just willing to accept whatever load of crap they're given by anyone.

I didn't scare them away from the bible, the bible itself repels them. Until I was 19, I never knew there were such atrocities in the bible, and I will never forget how sick I felt after reading Deuteronomy. I was pissed that I had been raised to believe that the bible was a guide for life, when in fact, it is a book of blood in the name of god. How could my mother lie to me?

Why does teaching of morals, love, and respect have to come from that book? I am a moral person, as are many atheists, and we are moral because we want to be moral. I would never lead in the massacre of towns full of women and children, but Moses did- in the name of God. I think it's safe to say we're all better people without morals like that.

I do not insist that they are to believe one way or another. By instilling in them skepticism, and nurturing their critical thinking skills, they will one day be able to find their own path, based upon questioning and a gathering of facts. Do I think they will be atheists? Probably. Is that bad? Hell no.

They're very kind, very loving children, just not eaters of bull.

---

The last thing Christian parents want is for their children to be critical thinkers.

A critical thinker can conclude that there is more to God than what is written in the book of Dueteronomy, therefore it's probably best to say that some Christians want their children to believe without understanding their own reasons for believing. Many people who are raised in the church follow without respectfully questioning the pastor, the staff, or the doctrines. I discourage thoughtless devotion and challenge every believer to deepen their relationship. I'd prefer if the so-called Christians would drop the title of Christian because their bad behavior is used against the rest of us, which goes the same for atheists.

Think on this, Blacks were here for hundreds of years under slavery. They never turned to God and blamed him for the evil happening to them, actaully God gave them hope since the Whites were convinced they were less than human. When a Black child today opens their history book that talks about the lynchings, the murder, the hate, the rape, do they grab a white person and say "Explain this! Why have you done this"? Do they decide that they were blinded from the truth about the united states and become sickened? No. Blacks realize that those times are over and the people then are not the same people now, they realize that they are given choices now and that they have the ability to move into a new future. God is telling you the history of the world and his people the Jews, land can't be taken without a fight, people are going to die, and some nations were to be wiped out completely for their crimes against the Lord. God is not asking for your approval, besides your approval wouldn't change anything anyway, just as my approval of Nazism doesn't change the holocaust. If you read the NT you will see that we're not under the law and that the bloodshed happened for a reason, like salvery, like the holocaust. I'm not happy about the bloodshed of the Bible, nor am I happy for slavery, nor am I happy for the holocaust but there are hundreds of people, places, inventions, laws and ideals that we wouldn't have if history did not follow the course it did. As a Christian I trust that there was a reason for the people to be killed because I believe that God is fully just and pure. Amen.

[The Grand Nudger]

The Holocaust happened for a reason which was known to god and apparently somehow beneficial to us. Jesus fucking christ I wait with baited breath. The just and pure extermination of a race of people. You're completely gone. Do you think about these things you say before you say them?

[salty]

Children trust their parents to give them an accurate view of things religious and moral. You say you explain things in a way that your children can understand and help them choose for themselves, then you show them a verse in the bible about dashing the heads of children on stones. If you were truly being fair, perhaps you would share the verses that you exposed your children to with their father and he would counter with something like this: "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perserveres." 1Corinthians 6-7.

Fair enough. Tell you what I'll pledge right now to make that a practice in my home if all your Sunday school teachers do the same thing. Every time they teach about the sweet love of god saving Noah and his family or Jesus suffering the little children, I want them to tell a story about the Biblical atrocities peppered throughout both the old and new testaments. What?!? They won't do that?!?!? shocking.

-I know what you mean. They will find out about the bloodshed in the bible it is not hidden from them, they are simply too young to understand it.

What is the reason for encouraging a 4 year old to demand proof? Does your 4 year old have the ability to define proof? Won't the child come and ask you what proof means and see if the answer that was given to them, would satisfy you?

Really? That's like asking what is the reason for encouraging a child to recite letters and numbers. Because his future counts on it! No, he probably will not grasp the concept in whole, that doesn't mean that the lesson you are attempting to teach is not taking hold. Actually, your whole point is entirely hypocritical because everyone knows the very reason for having Sunday school teachers is to begin the process of indoctrination. If anything, christians are many times worse that any atheist every could be about attempting to teach concepts far above the level of preschooler. (By 100 fold!)

- I guess you missed the part when I said it would be best for the children to be removed from Sunday school. I understand that children are impressionable in both directions for religion and against it.

Will your children admire you when they learn from someone else they love and respect that you scared them away from the bible, for the sake of your own beliefs and not because you actually wanted them to choose?

You made a classic mistake here when you wrote "for the sake of your own beliefs" and you added "not because you actually wanted them to choose", which of course is your own bias leaping up out of your own judgmental condition. There is no way you can possibly know what anyone's true motivations are, and yet because we don't believe in your god, you assume that all our motivations are somehow related to his undoing. MAYBE we just simply want our children to look at things as objectively as possibly - and that of course includes your silly Bible.

-this is no mistake Cinjin, if one parent is Christian and the other parent is not, it is likely the children will take an interest in both sides anyway, it's just as unfair for the father to place the children in the church as it is for the mother to demand they leave. The parents will decide how they will work it out. If the children hear about God from another relative they may feel some resentment toward the parent that either restricted or pushed. I am simply asking if they will admire a parent that basically discourages faith.

What is the best way to make sure they are not forced to believe if they don't want to?

Don't let them go get brainwashed week after week in a religion that can't even agree on dogmas inside their own community!

I agree.

And shouldn't you let them believe if they do want to?

Absolutely, and someday, when he tells me what he believes, I will love him no matter what. Meanwhile, I will teach him to analyze and deem worthy that which he is to encounter throughout his life.

- ok.