Being an Atheist parent in a Christian land

[Erinome]

Oh my gravity. Look, salty:

Your kids would see you praying and think it was totally normal, but mine would see you praying and ask you a million questions about what you're doing, why, etc.

At the end of the questioning, they might try praying for themselves as an experiment, but with a skeptics mind they will see very quickly that it does as much good as the lucky horseshoe, or a rabbits foot. The feeling you get when you pray can be attributed to a number of neurological occurrences, all of them caused by the power of thought. If you think praying helps you, great, but I am teaching my children to handle hard times in realistic, but healthy ways.

1.) Talking to a real person, who they trust and seeking advice.
2.) Expressing themselves through various forms of art.
3.) Physical activity to perhaps relieve aggression.
4.) Having some time alone with their thoughts, and even writing it all down.
5.) Helping others who are in need.

There are countless ways to get through things without prayer, and these things actually help.

When my daughter's kitten was found dead this morning, I totally understood how/why this fantasy world of religion came about. The kitten was a rescue, and he had Fading kitten syndrome, but we thought since he was eating a lot and seemed to be improving, that we had brought him back. Unfortunately, mother nature thought differently. My daughter was beyond upset. She had worked really hard to take care of him, and became quite attached. I could've, I suppose, filled her head with images of a comforting place where the soul of her kitty now lives in paradise forever, and in her grief, she probably wouldn't have questioned me.

Instead, I sat her down and explained to her the circle of life. I told her that her kitten will never again feel pain, and he will live as long as she lives as long as she keeps him in her heart. Four million and one questions later she was fine, and even threw the first bit of dirt onto the kittens little makeshift coffin.

Life can be lived without the fallacies of the bible. Children can understand how the real world works. Some people think they need their faith from which to draw strength, but really, all you need is understanding to be at peace.

[paintpooper]

Lets not forget that most brain development is at a very young age. If you are pounding religion and supernatural into their heads as young children, and always praying and or talking about religion. The child will have that almost implanted into his mind as to what is real and what is not. We take in many things as a child, that is how we interact with the world, that is when we do our learning. A human child is a fragile and delicate creature and must be nurtured much longer than most species. That is why our brain development is so high, we do not have the innate ability to walk, crawl, or interact with people these are all learned traits, to the best of my knowledge. So at the same time you teach walking, if you are programming their brain to think that ghosts and walking on water, and divine healing are real... well guess what the poor child's reality will be based on things that are not REAL. Which has a horrible effect on their lives if they are to live a reality based life, because that would be going against the most basics things that were taught to them as a child. Ever wonder why bigots breed bigots, stupid breeds stupid? Parents, a whole lots of shitty ones out there.

[Diamond-Deist]

Thank you Thor. No, I'm not one of them, because I've met those kids you're talking about. I attended a Christian college and I thought it was crazy when this kid told me the music I was playing wasn't right because of the drums and screaming, they automatically assumed the lyrics were bad. I told him that the group was praising God in their own way and that the drums are not a bad instrument. That guy is different now, but back then, he was so closed, if it wasn't a choir singing, he wouldn't listen to it.

Salty as a Christian parent (now or future) would you teach your kids scientific truths over the bible?

Like the creation of the earth and so forth, just wondering how far you would take the word of the bible when teaching your kids?

[Erinome]

A friend of mine (who lives too far away ) sent me this, and I thought it too great to keep to myself.


Q- How do I stop my child from becoming an atheist? I don't want him to be punished by God!

A- THIS HOW YOU STOP YOUR CHILDREN FROM BECOMING ATHIESTS...
Do not educate them, or expose them to critical thinking, logic or science.

Lie to them constantly about how the world works. Feed them a steady diet of mumbo jumbo dressed up like real knowledge - the jumbo jet in the whirlwind for example - and pretend that it is deep wisdom.

Make them loathe their own natural bodies and functions. Convince them they are small and weak and worthless and need redemption. Tell them everything enjoyable is grievously wrong to even think about, and that their only fun should be in grovelling to an invisible friend.

Ensure that they resent anyone who is not like them in every way - skin color, nationality, political opinion but especially creed. Make such people out to be evil and vile and give them - impotent minorities all - the fictional power to somehow oppress and persecute the vast majority who do think like you.

Teach them to laugh at and dismiss out of hand any faith but their own. Early - early mind you - make sure they are taught the difference between superstitious deadly error - that one raving lunatic in the desert told the truth about a vicious god who killed people, and divine eternal truth - that another raving lunatic in the desert told the truth about a vicious god who killed people.

Instruct them with all severity and import to never question for themselves - to never think for themselves - to never live for themselves - but to seek answers only in one - just one - particular set of semi-literate bronze age folk tales.

Above all - and this cannot be overemphasized - make sure they cannot spell, use correct grammar, or understand basic English words.

That should do the trick.

[Kayenneh]

Salty, you have been a kind person so far, and I hope that you can remind one after this. You blatantly fail making some points (of course they're up for discussion), but these are the ones that got caught in my eye the most.

I speak to them about sex and what it means to be married [...]have immoral sexual lives

Well, if governments would put just a little more money into sexual education instead of the ridiculous anti-sex campaigns, maybe you would get your teen pregnancies down in the U.S. Just a thought. Having babies is not cheap, not to mention if you are to raise one yourself. But to teach how to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies is so much more important than trying to say to young people that Jesus wants you to save yourself until marriage. Promiscuity is not a bad thing, if you know how to keep yourself from getting pregnant or how to avoid deceases.

And "immoral sex lives"? WTF? Sex is supposed to be enjoyed, only some weird dudes, who don't know squat about sex can say that it's immoral. Sex is about the best thing humankind came up with, we're supposed to enjoy it, no matter the gender, race or age (if people say that they're ready to have sex).

While others around them will take medications

And just what is wrong with taking medication, if you need it? Chemical imbalances can be well treated with medication nowadays. Some "illnesses" have the same percentage of getting well with medication as placebo does, but who are you to say that it's a bad thing to take medication? If all you need is a small pill once a day to keep your health stable, I say take it. No one should be ashamed of taking prescribed pills for whatever condition they might have.

[salty]

1. Faith in God - Normal (unfortunately)
2. God's Existence - unsubstantiated
3. A Relationship with God - see number 2

Of course you don't have to be an atheist. I just don't pal around with people who claim the moral high ground by positing scientific illiteracy, the righteousness of xenocide, or the sweet sweet comfort of torturing another to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions (to name a few). That I don't pal around with such people would probably lead you to a great many conclusions regarding my opinion of their parenting advice.

I see what you mean, but remember, I'm asking what's fair for the child considering one parent is Christian and one parent is Atheist. I am not giving parenting advice unless asked. I was asked what I would do in a similar situation and I responded, I don't remember demanding that anyone do as I said.

[KichigaiNeko]

1. Faith in God - Normal (unfortunately)
2. God's Existence - unsubstantiated
3. A Relationship with God - see number 2

Of course you don't have to be an atheist. I just don't pal around with people who claim the moral high ground by positing scientific illiteracy, the righteousness of xenocide, or the sweet sweet comfort of torturing another to absolve themselves of responsibility for their actions (to name a few). That I don't pal around with such people would probably lead you to a great many conclusions regarding my opinion of their parenting advice.

I see what you mean, but remember, I'm asking what's fair for the child considering one parent is Christian and one parent is Atheist. I am not giving parenting advice unless asked. I was asked what I would do in a similar situation and I responded, I don't remember demanding that anyone do as I said.

The amusing thing salty is that YOU would not know what YOU would do in that situation as YOU have not experienced it. (just saying before you get all 'victimised' about it)

[salty]

I've met those kids you're talking about. I attended a Christian college and I thought it was crazy when this kid told me the music I was playing wasn't right because of the drums and screaming, they automatically assumed the lyrics were bad.

This is the kind of thing that really bugs me. People telling you that you shouldn't listen to certain types of music, or that you shouldn't dance a certain way (or even that you shouldn't dance at all!) because it violates what they consider to be "God's will".

I fail to see how any deity could be concerned with you listening to music or dancing. It seems to me he would be more concerned with how you live your life and what kind of character you have.

I agree. I too feel that God is more concerned about the inner you than the outer, but wouldn't you think that the inner you is expressed through the outer? If you're engaging in nasty dancing, doesn't that mean that you're engaging in certain thoughts to get you to do those dances? That's the reason a lot of Christian institutions don't allow certain music or dancing, not because students cannot choose good music, but because the institution doesn't condone what can come of the thoughts that you have when you engaging in dancing to certain kinds of music, especally in a certain atmosphere.

I think the only way for people to tell you what to do is if you let them. When I came to this forum I read the rules and decided I wanted to follow them, because I don't want to be banned. I could still storm in and do what I want to do, but the likely result is that I will be banned if I don't mind the rules. Christians act the same way, they feel there's a punishment for disobedience, but you choose if you listen or not.

I'm sorry you've met Christians that are telling you what to do, the only people that Christians should be working on are themselves (because we represent the Christian movement), people in the church (because they have declared they want accountability) and people who ask for help (because they have expressed the desire to change). Everyone else can do what they want to do.

[KichigaiNeko]

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I've met those kids you're talking about. I attended a Christian college and I thought it was crazy when this kid told me the music I was playing wasn't right because of the drums and screaming, they automatically assumed the lyrics were bad.

This is the kind of thing that really bugs me. People telling you that you shouldn't listen to certain types of music, or that you shouldn't dance a certain way (or even that you shouldn't dance at all!) because it violates what they consider to be "God's will".

I fail to see how any deity could be concerned with you listening to music or dancing. It seems to me he would be more concerned with how you live your life and what kind of character you have.

I agree. I too feel that God is more concerned about the inner you than the outer, but wouldn't you think that the inner you is expressed through the outer? If you're engaging in nasty dancing, doesn't that mean that you're engaging in certain thoughts to get you to do those dances? That's the reason a lot of Christian institutions don't allow certain music or dancing, not because students cannot choose good music, but because the institution doesn't condone what can come of the thoughts that you have when you engaging in dancing to certain kinds of music, especally in a certain atmosphere.

I think the only way for people to tell you what to do is if you let them. When I came to this forum I read the rules and decided I wanted to follow them, because I don't want to be banned. I could still storm in and do what I want to do, but the likely result is that I will be banned if I don't mind the rules. Christians act the same way, they feel there's a punishment for disobedience, but you choose if you listen or not.

I'm sorry you've met Christians that are telling you what to do, the only people that Christians should be working on are themselves (because we represent the Christian movement), people in the church (because they have declared they want accountability) and people who ask for help (because they have expressed the desire to change). Everyone else can do what they want to do.

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[salty]

Oh my gravity. Look, salty:

Your kids would see you praying and think it was totally normal, but mine would see you praying and ask you a million questions about what you're doing, why, etc.

At the end of the questioning, they might try praying for themselves as an experiment, but with a skeptics mind they will see very quickly that it does as much good as the lucky horseshoe, or a rabbits foot. The feeling you get when you pray can be attributed to a number of neurological occurrences, all of them caused by the power of thought. If you think praying helps you, great, but I am teaching my children to handle hard times in realistic, but healthy ways.

1.) Talking to a real person, who they trust and seeking advice.
2.) Expressing themselves through various forms of art.
3.) Physical activity to perhaps relieve aggression.
4.) Having some time alone with their thoughts, and even writing it all down.
5.) Helping others who are in need.

There are countless ways to get through things without prayer, and these things actually help.

When my daughter's kitten was found dead this morning, I totally understood how/why this fantasy world of religion came about. The kitten was a rescue, and he had Fading kitten syndrome, but we thought since he was eating a lot and seemed to be improving, that we had brought him back. Unfortunately, mother nature thought differently. My daughter was beyond upset. She had worked really hard to take care of him, and became quite attached. I could've, I suppose, filled her head with images of a comforting place where the soul of her kitty now lives in paradise forever, and in her grief, she probably wouldn't have questioned me.

Instead, I sat her down and explained to her the circle of life. I told her that her kitten will never again feel pain, and he will live as long as she lives as long as she keeps him in her heart. Four million and one questions later she was fine, and even threw the first bit of dirt onto the kittens little makeshift coffin.

Life can be lived without the fallacies of the bible. Children can understand how the real world works. Some people think they need their faith from which to draw strength, but really, all you need is understanding to be at peace.

I'm sorry to hear about the kitten. I really like animals, especially cats. I agree with your methods of teaching, those are things that I will teach my children too! Especially #4. I think that people should have some time with their thoughts and write out their feelings. I think communication is one of the most important foundations for a good healthy life! I plan to also instill faith in my children as I feel there is nothing wrong with the ease, the comfort and the joy that it brings. I agree that life can be lived without prayer and no matter how unrealistic it is to depend on something we can't see I think that people do it naturally when something terrible happens.

Do you think people in ChristChurch were calculating their chance of survival during the Earthquake or were they praying to whatever force is above them they would live through it? By demonstrating prayer for my children I am not weakening them, I'm providing another avenue for them to express their troubles and grief and to struggle through life when things happen. I am showing them another way to feel hope when I will not be around to give them hope, the difference between us is I believe someone is listening when they pray.

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Lets not forget that most brain development is at a very young age. If you are pounding religion and supernatural into their heads as young children, and always praying and or talking about religion. The child will have that almost implanted into his mind as to what is real and what is not. We take in many things as a child, that is how we interact with the world, that is when we do our learning. A human child is a fragile and delicate creature and must be nurtured much longer than most species. That is why our brain development is so high, we do not have the innate ability to walk, crawl, or interact with people these are all learned traits, to the best of my knowledge. So at the same time you teach walking, if you are programming their brain to think that ghosts and walking on water, and divine healing are real... well guess what the poor child's reality will be based on things that are not REAL. Which has a horrible effect on their lives if they are to live a reality based life, because that would be going against the most basics things that were taught to them as a child. Ever wonder why bigots breed bigots, stupid breeds stupid? Parents, a whole lots of shitty ones out there.

I definitely agree that children are fragile. A lot of nuturing must occur, but parents must also let go of children at a certain age to come to conclusions about things themselves. I will not be raising a child on mere fantasy. I will instill the morals behind the message of Christ (love your neighbor as you love yourself), not just because it is good to do, but because the Lord has done so much to change me and given me so much compassion and hope. I want my children to share in these things with me. I want them to have compassion, hope, joy and love and I find these things in Christ. My children will know if I speak the truth through my actions, they are very observant.

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Thank you Thor. No, I'm not one of them, because I've met those kids you're talking about. I attended a Christian college and I thought it was crazy when this kid told me the music I was playing wasn't right because of the drums and screaming, they automatically assumed the lyrics were bad. I told him that the group was praising God in their own way and that the drums are not a bad instrument. That guy is different now, but back then, he was so closed, if it wasn't a choir singing, he wouldn't listen to it.

Salty as a Christian parent (now or future) would you teach your kids scientific truths over the bible?

Like the creation of the earth and so forth, just wondering how far you would take the word of the bible when teaching your kids?

As a Christian I would never exalt science over the Bible. Science has made it possible for me to be healthy physically, keeping me from death with medication, exams and the many great practices that make medical care so brilliant! But God has done something science can never achieve. God has made me whole spiritually. I would rather be sick and whole, than healthy and spiritually dead.

As a parent, if my children wanted to explore scientific findings and learn more about the universe I would be happy to explore with them. As I said before it would be unfair to shield my children from the many religions of the world and from atheism, therefore I wouldn't. If my children asked me to exalt science over the Bible I would refuse. They make their choices and I make mine.

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Salty, you have been a kind person so far, and I hope that you can remind one after this. You blatantly fail making some points (of course they're up for discussion), but these are the ones that got caught in my eye the most.

I speak to them about sex and what it means to be married [...]have immoral sexual lives

Well, if governments would put just a little more money into sexual education instead of the ridiculous anti-sex campaigns, maybe you would get your teen pregnancies down in the U.S. Just a thought. Having babies is not cheap, not to mention if you are to raise one yourself. But to teach how to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancies is so much more important than trying to say to young people that Jesus wants you to save yourself until marriage. Promiscuity is not a bad thing, if you know how to keep yourself from getting pregnant or how to avoid deceases.

And "immoral sex lives"? WTF? Sex is supposed to be enjoyed, only some weird dudes, who don't know squat about sex can say that it's immoral. Sex is about the best thing humankind came up with, we're supposed to enjoy it, no matter the gender, race or age (if people say that they're ready to have sex).

While others around them will take medications

And just what is wrong with taking medication, if you need it? Chemical imbalances can be well treated with medication nowadays. Some "illnesses" have the same percentage of getting well with medication as placebo does, but who are you to say that it's a bad thing to take medication? If all you need is a small pill once a day to keep your health stable, I say take it. No one should be ashamed of taking prescribed pills for whatever condition they might have.

Thank you for the compliment, I'm grateful you've seen me that way. You are expressing your thoughts, I have no reason to be unfriendly. Please take my comments as a person speaking calmly.

1. Concerning sex and immoral behavior with my my children.
As I said to Rhythm, I am sure that you can think of at least one scenario where sexual expression is immoral. Atheists have morals, they know when something is not right. I am saying that I will explain what sex is to my children. I will define what I believe is moral in practice and over time my children will either trust me or they will think otherwise, it is for them to decide. While they are under my roof, they will submit themselves to my rules and we will discuss what they think is fair or unfair, in the meantime they will obey. When they are on their own, they make their own decisions.

2. Concerning medication for individuals and my children.
Again, there are scenarios when medication is not the answer, there are scenarios when medication is the answer. I did not say that medication was unacceptable, instead I expressed that children watch people, when stress comes they may see one person run to the cabinet for medication, then they'll see me doing something else. They watch us and decide how they will respond to problems when they arise. I worked at a pharmacy for a year and saw so many people being medicated for problems that medication can't solve. Meds don't help people forgive or inspire deep compassion. Meds can't relieve people of the pain of betrayal or rape or hatred. Meds don't stop peope from committing suicide, in many cases they assist. I'm sure that you and I can agree, medication can be a great thing for the responsible adult and a terrible thing for the troubled individual. When my children are troubled I don't want them turning to medication for everything.

3. Concerning what you feel is moral or immoral sexually.
Remember, I did not specify what I will be teaching my children, the only thing that is clear is this: I will teach them about sex, about marriage and about what is immoral concerning our family. That is my right as a parent. I see that you expressed what you think is appropriate sex-wise and that's fine. I agree that sex is nice.