Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
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Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
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This is probably just something messed up, but still, I'm incredibly excited! Can you imagine, relativity being wrong?
![[Image: bloodyheretic.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img849.imageshack.us%2Fimg849%2F8673%2Fbloodyheretic.png) "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." Einstein When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down happy. They told me I didn't understand the assignment. I told them they didn't understand life. - John Lennon  RE: Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
September 23, 2011 at 3:27 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2011 at 3:29 pm by Anomalocaris.)
xxxxx
 RE: Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
September 23, 2011 at 3:51 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2011 at 3:51 pm by little_monkey.)
(September 23, 2011 at 1:40 pm)Napoleon Wrote:(September 23, 2011 at 9:05 am)little_monkey Wrote: In this case, that doesn't work, as neutrinos have a real mass and shouldn't be traveling at a speed greater than c. That's why the findings, if confirmed, would be disturbing, to say the least. The last thing they will consider is that the Lorentz transformation laws are incorrect. That would require a re-thinking of Relativity. Now there might be some other phenomena that were overlooked or some new undiscovered phenomena that influences either the speed of a photon and/or the neutrino. But my bet tho' is on a technical glitch. 
Well, Science has been proven wrong before, so i'm keeping an overly optimistical point of view on this: nothing very interesting has happened in physics for half a century, it would be nice to see this kind of revolution.
 But yeah, probably an error :/ 
Most people, including mainstream scientists, have misinterpreted Einstein's theories which state that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. No where does he say that exceeding the speed of light is impossible or that nothing can.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  (September 23, 2011 at 9:02 pm)IATIA Wrote: Most people, including mainstream scientists, have misinterpreted Einstein's theories which state that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. No where does he say that exceeding the speed of light is impossible or that nothing can.Yeah, I watched K-PAX too 
(September 23, 2011 at 9:02 pm)IATIA Wrote: Most people, including mainstream scientists, have misinterpreted Einstein's theories which state that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. No where does he say that exceeding the speed of light is impossible or that nothing can. That nothing exceed the speed of light is governed by the Lorentz transformation laws. It has nothing to do with acceleration. (September 24, 2011 at 7:36 am)little_monkey Wrote:(September 23, 2011 at 9:02 pm)IATIA Wrote: Most people, including mainstream scientists, have misinterpreted Einstein's theories which state that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. No where does he say that exceeding the speed of light is impossible or that nothing can. Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy
This result suggests neutrino travels about 1 in 50000 parts faster than light. This effect would have a huge impact on the detection timing in cases of neutrinos that had light years to travel, would it not? We know at the moment of core collapse a type II supernova gives off a massive burst of neutrinos. We also know that while the neutrinos would exit the supernova almost unimpeded, the electromagnetic manifestation of the supernova takes time it work it's way out of the star and make the supernova visible through electromagnetic observation, right?. This means the neutrino flux from supernova will always arrive on earth sooner than any visible sign that the star has gone supernova, right?
But if neutrino travel faster than light, that would mean further the supernova, the greater the observed lag time between when neutrinos are observed in the salt mines, and when the light is seen in telescopes, right? Do we observe this?? With a speed advantage of 1 part in 50000, a neutrino burst from a supernova in the magellonic cloud 150,000 light years away should gain 3 years on associated light burst, right, and arrive at least 3 years earlier than visible signs, right? Yet neutrino burst from the 1987A1 supernova in the large megellanic cloud was detected just 3 hours before the light burst, the 3 hours being consistent with how long the energy of the core collapse would take to work it's way out through the layers of the star out to it's surface. So any thoughts? Where was the additional neutrino speed then when supernova 1987A1 exploded? RE: Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
September 24, 2011 at 1:03 pm
(This post was last modified: September 24, 2011 at 1:33 pm by little_monkey.)
(September 24, 2011 at 10:50 am)IATIA Wrote:(September 24, 2011 at 7:36 am)little_monkey Wrote:(September 23, 2011 at 9:02 pm)IATIA Wrote: Most people, including mainstream scientists, have misinterpreted Einstein's theories which state that nothing can accelerate to the speed of light. No where does he say that exceeding the speed of light is impossible or that nothing can. From what law do you make that assertion? (September 24, 2011 at 11:26 am)Chuck Wrote: This result suggests neutrino travels about 1 in 50000 parts faster than light. This effect would have a huge impact on the detection timing in cases of neutrinos that had light years to travel, would it not? We know at the moment of core collapse a type II supernova gives off a massive burst of neutrinos. We also know that while the neutrinos would exit the supernova almost unimpeded, the electromagnetic manifestation of the supernova takes time it work it's way out of the star and make the supernova visible through electromagnetic observation, right?. This means the neutrino flux from supernova will always arrive on earth sooner than any visible sign that the star has gone supernova, right? You're right to say that the neutrinos were unimpeded while the photons had to climb out of the gravitational well in the case of that type II supernova. However, it's not one part in 50000. Now I don't remember off the top of my head, but it was smaller than one part per billion. The lag was like 10 hours. The other difference is that in that supernova, electron neutrinos were involved, while the OPERA team is using muon neutrinos. I'm more of the inclination that this due to some factor that was missed in their calculations, rather than a violation of Relativity. |
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Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern
