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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:07 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Actually, I'm not asking you to open your heart. I'm just noting that, for instance, many people don't understand the evidence for Relativity or Quantum Mechanics. But this does not make the latter any less valid, does it?
But there is massive amounts of EVIDENCE for Relativity and QM. It's the evidence that makes them valid, not whether I understand them or not.
There is no such evidence for the existence of a god.
Quote:You are saying you don't understand the proof that has been offered to you for God's Existence. That does not mean God does not Exist. It just means you don't understand the proof for His Existence. That's all.
I've sincerely examined the evidence that theists have offered me. I spent years doing my own research. I UNDERSTAND the evidence that has been presented to me. I came to the conclusion that there just isn't sufficient evidence to support the claim that a god exists.
Quote:Of-course, if you could offer conclusive proof for His non-existence that would settle the matter. But you can't, can you?
Logic 101 fail.
Do you have conclusive proof that there isn't a giant, invisible penguin that shits out stars somewhere in the universe?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm)Thor Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 8:47 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Disprove the existence of Thor or Zeus. Then we'll talk.
Hey! I exist! What do I have to do to convince you people?
A 50ft naked women who wants endless oral sex. That would convert me. 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm)Thor Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 8:47 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Disprove the existence of Thor or Zeus. Then we'll talk.
Hey! I exist! What do I have to do to convince you people?
Have you any evidence to back any of these allegations? Or are they just wild and malicious accusations?
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 3:13 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 4:06 am)Justtristo Wrote: I recently encounter this excellent blog post by John Loftus which describes the top seven ways Christianity has been debunked by the sciences. It can come in handy when you can say to people that science has disproved the bible and why.
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...unked.html
I'm not sure what definition of "God" John Loftus is using in his arguments. It certainly is not the one I find in Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:
Definition of GOD
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality:.....
If one does not respect the meanings of the words of the language it becomes very difficult - if not impossible - to communicate any meaning whatsoever with it. Presumably, Mr. Loftus is not trying to say that there is no such thing as Ultimate Reality - or is he? Ultimate Reality is what the entire enterprise of science is about seeking, is it not? So how can it be possible that science will ever be in opposition to this Ultimate Reality - God?
One can argue intelligently about the Nature of Ultimate Reality. But to claim that it does not exist at all is simply absurd. And whilst that is a view one might take on existence, absurdism has nothing whatsoever to do with science.
It would be nice if you included the rest of the dictionary's definition of God:
Definition of GOD
1
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3
: a person or thing of supreme value
4
: a powerful ruler
I think most here do not agree with 1, or 2.
If the world was created by a " Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness", one would expect things to be perfect here as well. We have searched, and found it is not, and conclude God is not real,
Much as the word "unicorn", if we find they do not exist in the "supreme reality", of having searched the entire world, and also finding none in the fossil record.
It is true, the word means one horn, but is good only for myth, and fairy tales. Myth and fairy tales is where we also leave God.
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.
Mark Twain
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 5:12 pm by Zaki Aminu.)
(September 28, 2011 at 5:08 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm)Thor Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 8:47 am)Ace Otana Wrote: Disprove the existence of Thor or Zeus. Then we'll talk.
Hey! I exist! What do I have to do to convince you people?
A 50ft naked women who wants endless oral sex. That would convert me.
Are you saying that you think that Ultimate Reality is a fiction? Why?
And why would a giantess that wants to perform fellatio on you be enough to convert you? Is there any logic to this or is it just a throw away comment?
(September 28, 2011 at 5:09 pm)Pendragon Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 3:13 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 4:06 am)Justtristo Wrote: I recently encounter this excellent blog post by John Loftus which describes the top seven ways Christianity has been debunked by the sciences. It can come in handy when you can say to people that science has disproved the bible and why.
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...unked.html
I'm not sure what definition of "God" John Loftus is using in his arguments. It certainly is not the one I find in Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:
Definition of GOD
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality:.....
If one does not respect the meanings of the words of the language it becomes very difficult - if not impossible - to communicate any meaning whatsoever with it. Presumably, Mr. Loftus is not trying to say that there is no such thing as Ultimate Reality - or is he? Ultimate Reality is what the entire enterprise of science is about seeking, is it not? So how can it be possible that science will ever be in opposition to this Ultimate Reality - God?
One can argue intelligently about the Nature of Ultimate Reality. But to claim that it does not exist at all is simply absurd. And whilst that is a view one might take on existence, absurdism has nothing whatsoever to do with science.
It would be nice if you included the rest of the dictionary's definition of God:
Definition of GOD
1
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3
: a person or thing of supreme value
4
: a powerful ruler
I think most here do not agree with 1, or 2.
If the world was created by a " Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness", one would expect things to be perfect here as well. We have searched, and found it is not, and conclude God is not real,
Much as the word "unicorn", if we find they do not exist in the "supreme reality", of having searched the entire world, and also finding none in the fossil record.
It is true, the word means one horn, but is good only for myth, and fairy tales. Myth and fairy tales is where we also leave God.
If you're going to be disagreeing with the language then you have to be admit you're not interested in communicating. You can't then pretend that you're being logical.
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:13 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Are you saying that you think that Ultimate Reality is a fiction? Why?
And why would a giantess that wants to perform fellatio on you be enough to convert you? Is there any logic to this or is it just a throw away comment?
I take it humour is very new to you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:15 pm
I'll make the same offer in this thread as you prattle on about "ultimate reality" that I did in the other. If you can figure out the name for what you are attempting to do here, I'll rate you up.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm by Zaki Aminu.)
(September 28, 2011 at 5:15 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'll make the same offer in this thread as you prattle on about "ultimate reality" that I did in the other. If you can figure out the name for what you are attempting to do here, I'll rate you up.
I'm sure I'll be able to bear you rating me down. I'm just trying to have an adult and intelligent conversation about serious matters. I thought that was what you wanted also. Am I wrong in thinking that?
(September 28, 2011 at 5:13 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: (September 28, 2011 at 5:11 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Are you saying that you think that Ultimate Reality is a fiction? Why?
And why would a giantess that wants to perform fellatio on you be enough to convert you? Is there any logic to this or is it just a throw away comment?
I take it humour is very new to you.
Not really. But I thought the topic was quite a serious one.
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2011 at 5:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Oh no no no, there's actually no rating down here, I'm offering to rate you up. I think it would be a great learning experience for you (searching for what I requested, not the rating).
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Top Seven Ways Christianity is Debunked By the Sciences
September 28, 2011 at 5:22 pm
(September 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm)Zaki Aminu Wrote: Not really. But I thought the topic was quite a serious one.
You never add any humour? Not even a little?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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