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Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Hello, I'm new here and I'm looking for someone who can debate with me. I am a Christian in College and I'm actively searching for truth. First, I will point out that I believe that there is no way you can 100% know that a God exists or doesn't exist and I believe that Christianity revolves on not knowing God exists. For instance I am a Christian who believes in God, but do I think God exists? Maybe, however Christianity revolves around faith in God and you receive "salvation" based on that faith. If I knew God exists then there's no faith involved therefor I am neither Christian nor do I receive "salvation." I'm not looking to convert anyone I'm simply looking for what others believe. I'm not looking to attack anyone's beliefs only to defend mine. I am open to any questions that you have for me. Finally, I will also point out that I hate ignorant Christians, and Christians who don't intelligently defend their faith with respect.
Even the bible says to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" (Luke 10:27)
and "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15)
In my opinion these are two of the most ignored verses int he bible
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 4:51 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm)SeekerOfTruth Wrote: Hello, I'm new here and I'm looking for someone who can debate with me. I am a Christian in College and I'm actively searching for truth. First, I will point out that I believe that there is no way you can 100% know that a God exists or doesn't exist and I believe that Christianity revolves on not knowing God exists. For instance I am a Christian who believes in God, but do I think God exists? Maybe, however Christianity revolves around faith in God and you receive "salvation" based on that faith. If I knew God exists then there's no faith involved therefor I am neither Christian nor do I receive "salvation." I'm not looking to convert anyone I'm simply looking for what others believe. I'm not looking to attack anyone's beliefs only to defend mine. I am open to any questions that you have for me. Finally, I will also point out that I hate ignorant Christians, and Christians who don't intelligently defend their faith with respect.
Even the bible says to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" (Luke 10:27)
and "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15)
In my opinion these are two of the most ignored verses int he bible
Welcome.
You might have a look at this debate, which actually assumes the existence of God
http://atheistforums.org/thread-5355.html
The Christian I was going to debate dropped out of the forum for personal reasons.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 4:52 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2011 at 5:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So there's no way to know one way or the other. What room is left for debate?
"I would like to have a debate about the sun. Firstly I'd like to point out that I believe there is no way that one can know 100% whether or not the sun exists or doesn't exist"
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 6:20 pm
What exactly is there to debate over your first post.
I agree. There is no proof for god, and it must be taken on faith.
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 6:27 pm
For the most part, SeekerOfTruth. You've done better than most theists who come here...judging by your first post. 
Not bad at all.
Feel free to pose questions. I'm sure many here would be happy to answer them.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm
I don't know why so many people make the claim that you can't know 100% that God exists. Certainly an all-powerful being like the Judeo-Christian god would be able to make himself known to the entire population of Earth if he wanted to. Then everyone would know that he exists. Like the sun, you could point up in the sky and say, "See? There it is."
If there really were an all-powerful god that wanted everyone on Earth to worship it, would this be such a bad thing to do? I know theists always rely on faith, but would it be such a bad thing if there were no religious faith with a visible deity? You'd still have to have faith that what he's telling you is true, however, and that he really will let you spend eternity with him if you behave in certain ways.
Christian apologetics is the art of rolling a dog turd in sugar and selling it as a donut.
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 4:52 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So there's no way to know one way or the other. What room is left for debate?
"I would like to have a debate about the sun. Firstly I'd like to point out that I believe there is no way that one can know 100% whether or not the sun exists or doesn't exist"
There's always room to debate. There's room for debate until it is proven 1 way or another. It it was known and proven 100% that God existed there would be no need to debate the matter. For example, what you said about debating the existence about the sun, can anyone intelligently debate that the sun doesn't exist when everyone can physically sense it at any point of the day?
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 6:39 pm
(October 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm)SeekerOfTruth Wrote: Hello, I'm new here and I'm looking for someone who can debate with me. I am a Christian in College and I'm actively searching for truth. First, I will point out that I believe that there is no way you can 100% know that a God exists or doesn't exist and I believe that Christianity revolves on not knowing God exists. So then why do you choose to believe he exists? Why do you choose to believe something that cannot be substantiated and may very likely not be true at all?
Even if you don't take the position of even "I believe god/jesus does exist" then why do you honestly bother?
If you're in search of the truth, then why not go down the path of things that can be proven as true?
Things like evolution, gravity, and the speed of light are all things that have been studied, measured, and proven to work consistently often despite interests against those things (like christian creationism against all of those things or conservatism vs. climate change.)
More to the point, there is no evidence anywhere that anything in the bible is true and in fact scientific inquiery over the past several centuries has basically been systematically proving that the bible is anything but true - even the study of human history essentially discounts much of the events of the bible are true, even in certain people and places did, in fact, exist (like how spider man is fictional but New York is not.)
(October 26, 2011 at 4:42 pm)SeekerOfTruth Wrote: For instance I am a Christian who believes in God, but do I think God exists? Maybe, however Christianity revolves around faith in God and you receive "salvation" based on that faith. If I knew God exists then there's no faith involved therefor I am neither Christian nor do I receive "salvation." I'm not looking to convert anyone I'm simply looking for what others believe. I'm not looking to attack anyone's beliefs only to defend mine. I am open to any questions that you have for me. Finally, I will also point out that I hate ignorant Christians, and Christians who don't intelligently defend their faith with respect.
Even the bible says to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind" (Luke 10:27)
and "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15)
In my opinion these are two of the most ignored verses int he bible
To be fair, most christians don't follow any of Jesus' teachings. I can only hope it's the reason why people still vote republican and scoff at universal healthcare because then there'd bea reason beyond mere apathy and hate. That's another topic for another day, however.
Yes, if you knew god exists, then that makes the concept of "Faith in God" pointless.
However, I have a hard time believing that if someone asked you to give them 10% of your income in tithes to someone who has saved your life (he says his name is bob) and constantly protects you from unicorn rape but you cannot meet bob, see bob, then I have a hard time believing that you'd take it seriously.
Think about this the next time you get an email from a Nigerian Prince who wants to give you millions of dollars if you'd just front him a few thousand.
Given that even you admit that you cannot discern god in the sense of fact vs. fiction, then why are you involved at all? Thinkn about this the next time you hear about the nigerian email scam or any other con game because you've chosen to believe in one over the other and you've told me that you recognize this but you have given me no other reason to stay in it other than the possibility of 'maybe.'
It's very poor reasoning.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Quote:First, I will point out that I believe that there is no way you can 100% know that a God exists or doesn't exist
Hmmm.... however, I see no evidence that your god ( or any other gods ever invented by men ) exist. I am not stating that I know 100% one way or the other merely that the evidence presented by believers is farcical at worst and unconvincing at best.
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RE: Christian Looking For Debate
October 26, 2011 at 7:14 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2011 at 7:16 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Why on earth would I waste my time trying to debate an apologist? I consider them intellectually dishonest. Such people argue from a position of personal certitude, unwilling/unable to concede the possibility of any error in their basic position.IE the existence of god as a given. I do not accept that given,so there is no basis for discussion.
My position is simple; I make no claims.,the believer does. I do not accept that the existence of god(s) can be established by reason alone.,I demand evidence.Either show me some credible evidence to support your claims or piss off.
Nor do I conflate winning a debate or argument with being right necessarily.
Quote:If you could reason with religious people,there wouldn't be any. (Greg House)
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