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If people are saved by works, faith is not needed.
If people are saved by faith, God is not just.
If God is just, what does the unbeliever have to fear?
If God is not just, what does the believer hope to serve?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
OP, you can be thankful that there is no hell, there is no punishment after you die, the only real punishment is death, as your chance has been and gone. GC and friends can waffle all they want, but there is no hell, maybe alzheimers or loneliness in old age is the closest description to a real hell.
Yeah, I still like to discuss the idea of justice and Hell though. To me it is an internal inconsistency with the Bible and I think it is a relevant one to discuss. I am not an atheist activist per say but I definitely am trying to get other people away from Christianity.
After planning to in a sense dedicate my life to a cause that I now believe is a farce I believe in trying to set people free from the insanity.
(November 15, 2011 at 2:05 am)Godschild Wrote: In the first place a man like Hitler would not ask forgiveness for what he had done. Hitler thought he was right in what he did and thus would not see any reason to ask God's forgiveness. Second a man that is taking his own life is running away from responsibility, so again he would not be looking towards forgiveness, asking forgiveness is admitting responsibility. So Hitler would never have been looking at forgiveness. Your what if has no relevancy.
If he truly believed, with his whole heart and soul, that he was right and following your god's way, with christ in his heart, then does he get to go to heaven? After all, he did not do anything your god would not do!
There was no justice in what Hitler did.
Note my bold. And your response is our argument against your god.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
(November 15, 2011 at 2:05 am)Godschild Wrote: In the first place a man like Hitler would not ask forgiveness for what he had done. Hitler thought he was right in what he did and thus would not see any reason to ask God's forgiveness. Second a man that is taking his own life is running away from responsibility, so again he would not be looking towards forgiveness, asking forgiveness is admitting responsibility. So Hitler would never have been looking at forgiveness. Your what if has no relevancy.
If he truly believed, with his whole heart and soul, that he was right and following your god's way, with christ in his heart, then does he get to go to heaven? After all, he did not do anything your god would not do!
There was no justice in what Hitler did.
Note my bold. And your response is our argument against your god.
How is it you can have an argument against what you do not believe exist.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
November 15, 2011 at 9:41 pm (This post was last modified: November 15, 2011 at 9:45 pm by Godscreated.)
(November 15, 2011 at 4:58 pm)Zen Badger Wrote:
(November 15, 2011 at 2:42 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(November 15, 2011 at 2:22 am)IATIA Wrote:
(November 15, 2011 at 2:05 am)Godschild Wrote:
In the first place a man like Hitler would not ask forgiveness for what he had done. Hitler thought he was right in what he did and thus would not see any reason to ask God's forgiveness. Second a man that is taking his own life is running away from responsibility, so again he would not be looking towards forgiveness, asking forgiveness is admitting responsibility. So Hitler would never have been looking at forgiveness. Your what if has no relevancy.
If he truly believed, with his whole heart and soul, that he was right and following your god's way, with christ in his heart, then does he get to go to heaven? After all, he did not do anything your god would not do!
There was no justice in what Hitler did.
(November 15, 2011 at 7:51 am)Zen Badger Wrote:
(November 15, 2011 at 2:05 am)Godschild Wrote:
(November 14, 2011 at 6:36 am)Zen Badger Wrote: So tell me GC, if Adolf Hitler had asked for forgiveness from god just before he died, would he have gotten into heaven?
In the first place a man like Hitler would not ask forgiveness for what he had done. Hitler thought he was right in what he did and thus would not see any reason to ask God's forgiveness. Second a man that is taking his own life is running away from responsibility, so again he would not be looking towards forgiveness, asking forgiveness is admitting responsibility. So Hitler would never have been looking at forgiveness. Your what if has no relevancy.
Don't dodge the question.
If Hitler had asked for forgiveness from god before he died would he have got into heaven??
Yes or no?
I did not dodge the question I used reason to explain why it would have never taken place. You gripe when a christian does not use reason now you gripe when one does, please make up your mind we do not have time for your games.
ZB Wrote:I'm sorry, did I phrase the question incorrectly?
I'm actually asking a hypothetical.
I'm sure Hitler never asked for forgiveness.
But if he had, would he have gotten into heaven?
Yes you were quite clear in your question, I understand it was a hypothetical, however it's a hypothetical that would have never happened. So why dwell on a thing that would have not happened. I know why you persist and you know what the answer is, so you'll have to go it from here.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Hitler was a devout Christian. I read Mein Kampf recently, and trust me, he was very very Christian. Why are you so sure Hitler never asked for forgiveness? I think you're wrong. Your heaven is the same heaven that Hitler was aiming for, and all it takes is reading the piece of shit bible to know how fond you and Hitler's god is of ethnic cleansing. He condoned it and commanded it quite often. Who are you to say that he didn't command this of Hitler?
If your heaven is real, then tell Hitler I said hello. I'll be in hell with the decent people of this world.
(November 15, 2011 at 9:47 pm)aleialoura Wrote: Hitler was a devout Christian. I read Mein Kampf recently, and trust me, he was very very Christian. Why are you so sure Hitler never asked for forgiveness? I think you're wrong. Your heaven is the same heaven that Hitler was aiming for, and all it takes is reading the piece of shit bible to know how fond you and Hitler's god is of ethnic cleansing. He condoned it and commanded it quite often. Who are you to say that he didn't command this of Hitler?
If your heaven is real, then tell Hitler I said hello. I'll be in hell with the decent people of this world.
If hell's your destination then you'll join Hitler, you want know it, you will not know who is in hell with you. Anyone who would call Hitler a Christian has no knowledge of what christianity is all about.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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