UK STRIKE DAY 30TH NOVEMBER

[Violet]

Lily, glad to see you having fun at mine and the arsehole's expense!
More at mine, I fear but so be it...whatever rocks your boat!

Just 1 thing in response, yes I grant you my " joke " wasn't that funny ( just wanted to see if he took the bait )and you missed it. But hey, that has been my plea on several occasions.

Hey... if he does it again: him too.

Yours just happened to finally flip my switch ^_^

Might take a while to recharge, but I rather enjoyed doing that ^_^

I want you to know that I was rooting for you. Know that.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrWp53jU-MI

Because why not?

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Apart from our atheism, I doubt that you and I would agree on anything.

Don't forget fascism. You both hate that

And I do too ^_^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liq_wYFkM...re=related

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You make a grunt who can scale up in the act of taking out pill boxes, then we can compare apples to apples.

Veterancy.

Or rather: getting better with experience.

So all 'grunts' that do survive 'scale up', becoming better 'grunts'.

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Not only that; I wouldn't be able to strike even if I wanted to. Remember my previous comment about what happens when one person strikes? They get fired...

And then a replacement must be found.

There are lots of people, yes... but they are not infinite. Eventually you run out of people to replace the person you fired.

Not that the wait is fair to the early adopters.

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Ever wonder why meaningful negotiation isn't happening? Because the demands are ridiculous. The government is in debt; there is no extra money that can go into pensions.

Debt is a product of the mind. The government does not have less than nothing: it has nothing. Debt is a ridiculous notion: we have nothing to give the lenders... so they are fucked. They essentially 'gave' to someone who couldn't (or didn't) give back in return. Their loss for being moronic and expecting money-lending to be a safe process by which they cannot lose

[The Grand Nudger]

Wait wait. The price of the service cannot be payed by the person requesting it and so the provider of said service should just give it to them for whatever they're willing to pay? Not sure that's how the market works.

[Violet]

Wait wait. The price of the service cannot be payed by the person requesting it and so the provider of said service should just give it to them for whatever they're willing to pay? Not sure that's how the market works.

No... we know how the market works (keeps money-lenders safe). But that isn't how it should work. Hell... I've leant money to various people, and only about half of them have paid me back (only half of that half in full). Why should other money lenders have it any better?

I see their protection as unrealistic. If you lend your money to a thief... well too bad: it's gone. So when people make a fuss over the 'debt' of the united states: I simply laugh at the absurdity of it all.

Moral of the story: don't lend money to anyone who asks.

[Jaysyn]

Maybe the job the minimum wage slaves of the world do is a little more complicated and critical than we're giving them credit for.

This. I've never worked harder than when I was working fast food or at the farmer's market selling produce. For at or near minimum wage.

[bozo]

Maybe the job the minimum wage slaves of the world do is a little more complicated and critical than we're giving them credit for.

This. I've never worked harder than when I was working fast food or at the farmer's market selling produce. For at or near minimum wage.

Good point. Under the Capitalist system, simply working hard is no guarantee of enjoying a decent standard of living, whereas being born into a wealthy family does, without demanding a great amount of effort.
I concur with your observation, the hardest work I have ever done was for the worst pay. As I got " better " jobs, I worked less hard.

[5thHorseman]

no need to concur, he's saying same as u

[reverendjeremiah]

My tool buddy gives me a break from jackhammering for a while today. The panel just to the right is a logic control panel with fiber connectivity. I ran the pipes up under it and formed the concrete base. We are jackhammering because 2 foot thick concrete is in our pipes way.

IBEW local 80 supports the strike in UK

[Tiberius]

right..because I dont have to think, or run through countless pages of blueprints and codes and local laws. I merely work like a grunt. In no way do I have to use mathematics on site to figure loads and pipe bends (which require trigonometry and applied physics). Like I am just a grunt.

I never said you were "just a grunt". I said my job was less physically difficult, and more mentally difficult. I don't doubt that your job requires thinking; my point was that mine requires a great deal more. I'm in research; one of the few jobs out there which is almost 100% thinking.

then YOUR type comes in, making $300 per hour while I make $23 an hour.

You see, this is where you fall down, because you could have asked me a simple question: "Adrian, how much do you make an hour?". I would have gladly answered you; but instead, you make a massive assumption about me, and it turns out to be completely wrong. I just did the calculation; I make $21 an hour, without tax. This is what happens when you abandon all politeness in a debate; you paint your opponent in completely the wrong light, as you have done time and time again here.

I have also been trained to do what they do... yet I dont get their jobs. Jobs like those are pork barrel jobs given as favors to relatives.

If you've really been trained to do what they do, go out and get a job doing what they do. If you are implying that I got my job as some family favour, I can assure you I got my job like most people; by passing an interview and being the best candidate.

So sure..your job is much more mentally fatiguing as mine...and "less physically difficult"? You have to be kidding me. How about "NOT physically difficult". thats more about reality son.

You realise that "not physically difficult" is still less physically difficult than what you do right? C'mon now, you're just arguing semantics.

..and even then, I am willing to share my pie with you. you may call me insane for such a gesture. I will merely smile as I hand it to you...that is, if you are willing to reciprocate.

I'm willing to share my pie with anyone; I just oppose being forced into doing it. I give to charity, I buy things for my friends, etc, but I'll object if the government (or anyone else) demands that I do it. There is nothing moral about forcing people to be "kind". Moreover, people aren't going to suddenly stop being kind if the government grants them more freedom with their money.

You are truly a one-off. I have never come across anybody so self-centred, self opinionated and objectionable as you.

Right back at you.

You like to attack people, not just me, if they have views that you not only disagree with but which really wind you up in the way , let's say like the issue of racism does. By the way,since when is " suspecting " a direct accusation? I chose my word carefully as I would need more evidence for that.

No, I like to debate people. You are the one who goes around calling me an "arsehole" and a "suspected closet racist" because I have the nerve to challenge your beliefs. I don't care if you don't think suspecting someone of being a racist isn't a direct accusation; I find it insulting to even be "suspected", especially given my history on these forums of defending social equality.

You think you are very clever and you love to batter opponents into submission in exchanges on this forum. I've witnessed your style over the 3 years I've been here.

Says the guy who has opened most of his responses to me with the words "To the arsehole". Debating is agressive; people from two opposing viewpoints clashing is bound to get both sides riled up. I've not once demanded you shut up, or done anything to "batter you into submission". I've done what any good debater does; attack their opponent's argument. Mostly, I've done it without the need to resort to foul language (although I admit, calling you a borderline-fascist was probably a step over the line, and I retract it).

Well you won't batter me arsehole, so if it's too hot then stay out the kitchen. I won't accept you coming over all hurt at a bit of name-calling. This is real life not your bubble world so learn to live with it.

Don't accept it then; I think it's a piss poor way to debate. I've received support from numerous people on these forums who agree with that statement. I founded these forums on the principle that people of differing beliefs can debate without insulting each other, and for the most part, it has worked. That kind of sentiment never did stick with you though.

If there is any way you can grant some freedom on this post...perhaps move it to the pit and allow everyone to speak their mind without fear of being banned, then I will gladly continue this discussion with you.

It won't get moved to the pit. There is absolutely no need for people to start using insulting language in this kind of debate. If you don't think you can discuss our differing opinions without resorting to attacking me personally, or accusing me of sick and twisted things, then don't respond to my posts. I'm not going to hold it against you if you don't want to debate anymore; I understand it's a logical fallacy to act victorious if your opponent steps out of a debate. Either you can act with the degree of civility that these forums demand, or we can leave it here. I'd refuse to debate you if we moved this to R'yleh, since I'd know the only reason it was there is so you can call me names and accuse me of wanting children dead.

Currently you are still "the great leader". Nobody is going to moderate you, and you have moderator powers as well.

I'm not "the great leader". Look around; we have a large staff team, most of whom do not share my views, and who are happy to reprimand me if they think I've broken the rules. I have moderator powers, yet I have not used them. Why not? Because I believe in freedom of speech, and I'm not going to sink to the level of abusing my authority just because someone insults me. I'll leave that decision up to the staff who aren't involved.

Me and bozo are merely members who take a great risk pissing you off by disagreeing with you.

You aren't taking a risk if you abide by the rules. I disagree with most people on this site about various issues, but we manage to hold a certain respect for each other. If you break the rules, you risk being punished, but then, there is no reason to break the rules in the first place. If you can't write a post without resorting to an insult, or some baseless accusation, then you shouldn't be posting in the first place.

If there was some way you could guarentee that no action would be taken against me and bozo, and anyone else involved in this conversation... then I would gladly take this discussion to the level it deserves.

There will be no action taken against anyone who doesn't break the rules. It's that simple.

[reverendjeremiah]

You aren't taking a risk if you abide by the rules. I disagree with most people on this site about various issues, but we manage to hold a certain respect for each other. If you break the rules, you risk being punished, but then, there is no reason to break the rules in the first place. If you can't write a post without resorting to an insult, or some baseless accusation, then you shouldn't be posting in the first place.

thats just it, you see insult in many things I say..let me give you an example of how you would find insult in what I say...

I never said you were "just a grunt". I said my job was less physically difficult, and more mentally difficult. I don't doubt that your job requires thinking; my point was that mine requires a great deal more. I'm in research; one of the few jobs out there which is almost 100% thinking.

(acting like adrian) I am very offended that you do not think that I do not think 100% of the time on the job. Research or not does not mean you think more than I. Did you not consider that I also do research on the job as well? If you open a box slam full of 50+ wires, and each one of them has enough amperage and voltage to kill an elephant, what do you think I do? If I do not research and make the wrong decision, then REAL LIFE consequences will happen, such as the loss of my or someone elses life, or the damaging of millions of dollars of equipment. There is no need to resort to personal attacks on this thread by suggesting that I dont think 100% of the time on my job. Another personal attack such as this and you will be officially warned.(/acting like adrian)

See? See how easily that turned from something you didnt mean into something that now makes you look like an ass?

This is what Bozo meant when he said "you play to the crowd".

[Tiberius]

You can twist my words all you like. I get insulted by things you've actually said and meant, not things I've twisted or turned into something you never intended to say.

You said, quite matter of factly, that I "advocate the death and destitution of many millions of families and children". I didn't twist your words; that is a direct quote. That is what I got offended by, and what I think went over the line. bozo did the same every time he addressed me as an "arsehole" rather than use my username or my actual name.

As for the 100% thinking thing; our discussions came down to different types of work; those that involved physical skill, and those that involve mental skill. Now, one can argue that any job involving physical skill also requires mental skill, but it is meaningless if we are trying to compare jobs. You said my job required "no physical difficulty"; well, if you're going to imply that your job requires thinking about wires, then why can't I do the same and say that typing on my keyboard is a physical activity? Or maybe going down to the server room, and shifting machines around? Both jobs require both sets of skills, but both jobs use one skill more than the other. That was the only point I was making.

If you think that's playing to the crowd, so be it. I clearly can't change your mind or get you to apologise.