I think comparing the happiness of religion to that of being drunk is a fair comparison.

I've not been under myself, but the interesting thing is the vast majority of people I've been aware of coming out of religion are happier outside of it. Only a handful have said otherwise.

Maybe it's a bit like people who think they are happy while in an abusive relationship, and they just can't imagine things being any other way and so don't know what they are missing.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

I don't think religion makes people happy.  However, it is difficult to measure such things, particularly since religious people often believe that religion is supposed to make them happy, so they are very likely to pretend that it is making them happy even if it isn't.  Also, if they have never been completely nonreligious, they do not have a frame of reference for their judgment on the matter, so they are not in a position to know if their religion really is bringing them more happiness than not having a religion would.

In my case, I became much happier after becoming an atheist than I was as a theist.  Not immediately, but over time, after getting used to being an atheist.  And I have never met anyone who felt differently, who was a complete atheist for a few years, who said that he or she was less happy (overall) with atheism than with being religious.


One of the great advantages to being an atheist is that one does not worry about pissing off god and getting him to punish one.  I have zero fear of ending up in hell, because I do not believe in it.  When I was religious, I knew that (according to my religion) if I screwed up later in life, I could end up in hell, even if I presently was doing what I should be doing.  My guess is, with every religion in which god or the gods punish people, the believers will always have, at least in the backs of their minds, the idea that they could make a mistake and anger god(s) and end up getting bad consequences.  And that is in most religions, that one can be punished by god(s).  I don't think such fears are conducive to happiness.

(August 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I don't think religion makes people happy.  However, it is difficult to measure such things, particularly since religious people often believe that religion is supposed to make them happy, so they are very likely to pretend that it is making them happy even if it isn't.  Also, if they have never been completely nonreligious, they do not have a frame of reference for their judgment on the matter, so they are not in a position to know if their religion really is bringing them more happiness than not having a religion would.

In my case, I became much happier after becoming an atheist than I was as a theist.  Not immediately, but over time, after getting used to being an atheist.  And I have never met anyone who felt differently, who was a complete atheist for a few years, who said that he or she was less happy (overall) with atheism than with being religious.


One of the great advantages to being an atheist is that one does not worry about pissing off god and getting him to punish one.  I have zero fear of ending up in hell, because I do not believe in it.  When I was religious, I knew that (according to my religion) if I screwed up later in life, I could end up in hell, even if I presently was doing what I should be doing.  My guess is, with every religion in which god or the gods punish people, the believers will always have, at least in the backs of their minds, the idea that they could make a mistake and anger god(s) and end up getting bad consequences.  And that is in most religions, that one can be punished by god(s).  I don't think such fears are conducive to happiness.

Pyrrho, I'm sorry your religious experience was like that.  Which branch of theism was that if you don't mind me asking?

In my whole life, I don't think I've ever met a person for whom religion was a source of happiness. My wife spent her religious years constantly afraid that reality was beset by demons, that every knock and rattle in the dark was a ghost, or a monster, because that's what her particular religious teachings were: demons were real, there were supernatural forces out to get you if you showed a moment's weakness, and god would not save you because free will. My mother in law spent years unhappily married because her weird asshole of an ex husband kept threatening her with hell if she divorced and displease a god who, coincidentally, just happened to like whatever he wanted. My brother in law alternates between depending on his family for support and lashing out at us for daring to not believe in the things his god wants, to the point that he's alienated absolutely every one of us. That previously mentioned ex husband, my wife's father, has essentially disappeared, waiting for god to kill him.

At every turn, I don't see religion bringing happiness. I see it sharply defining and enabling the destructive behaviors of others, only making life worse for them. In a couple of cases, it's downright destroyed them.

(August 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm)Cephus Wrote: Who cares?  Happiness isn't a valid demonstration of reality.  The most comforting lie in the world is still a lie, the most uncomfortable truth is still the truth.  Anyone whose worldview is only based on being happy is an irrational idiot.

I wouldn't base my world view on the most comforting answer.  In fact I find it very hard to lie to myself, at least knowingly.  But suppose the lie you believe won't materially hurt you or anyone else, AND it makes you much happier.  What then?  I'm still not sure I'd want to believe a lie, but I can't condemn it in anyone else.

(August 5, 2015 at 12:47 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:

(August 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I don't think religion makes people happy.  However, it is difficult to measure such things, particularly since religious people often believe that religion is supposed to make them happy, so they are very likely to pretend that it is making them happy even if it isn't.  Also, if they have never been completely nonreligious, they do not have a frame of reference for their judgment on the matter, so they are not in a position to know if their religion really is bringing them more happiness than not having a religion would.

In my case, I became much happier after becoming an atheist than I was as a theist.  Not immediately, but over time, after getting used to being an atheist.  And I have never met anyone who felt differently, who was a complete atheist for a few years, who said that he or she was less happy (overall) with atheism than with being religious.


One of the great advantages to being an atheist is that one does not worry about pissing off god and getting him to punish one.  I have zero fear of ending up in hell, because I do not believe in it.  When I was religious, I knew that (according to my religion) if I screwed up later in life, I could end up in hell, even if I presently was doing what I should be doing.  My guess is, with every religion in which god or the gods punish people, the believers will always have, at least in the backs of their minds, the idea that they could make a mistake and anger god(s) and end up getting bad consequences.  And that is in most religions, that one can be punished by god(s).  I don't think such fears are conducive to happiness.

Pyrrho, I'm sorry your religious experience was like that.  Which branch of theism was that if you don't mind me asking?

I was raised a Southern Baptist.  During my time of doubting, I briefly considered Quakerism.  I liked the Quakers more than most (and I still do), but they did not address some of my more fundamental concerns, only some of my secondary concerns.  I was certainly open to other forms of Christianity, or even other religions, while I was trying to figure things out.  But ultimately, Christianity and religion generally are just too silly to be believed.

I did not stop believing because of considerations of happiness.  Indeed, while I was deconverting, I was not happy, and I did not think that becoming an atheist would lead to happiness at all.  I was deconverting because Christianity is just too ridiculous for me to believe, not because of considerations of what would make me happy.

Part of religion's shtick is to make believers think they need religion and will be unhappy without it.

And don't talk to any atheists! Keep away from them! Because you might find out we're talking shit.

(August 5, 2015 at 4:45 am)Kitan Wrote: Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Falsely quoted. It gets a whole different context if the quote is read in it's entirety.

Quote: Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people

Only used once by Karl Marx in A Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, which was never published.

I was raised Protestant Pentecostal. Religion only brought me horror, feelings of inadequacy when my fervent prayers never had a hint of an answer (because I wasn't good enough, you know), guilt, boredom in long services, memorizing chapter upon chapter of bible verses, etc. After I became an adult, religion was responsible for the loss of my parents and many of my friends. (Coming out as an atheist is worse for some people than coming out as gay . . . I know, I've done both.) So hell no.  Unless you count some pretty music, not one minute of happiness.