(August 4, 2015 at 12:37 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Ok. Why is Ezekiel 23:19-21 important in understanding god? ಠ_ಠ

Or the lists of generations and people in Genesis? Or the details of the ark? Or the Jewish law of the time? How is that helpful or necessary to understanding god?

Furthermore, are you saying god is knowable?

God is knowable since He knows all things he can condescend to us also that is why he Gave us the Bible and always has had a representative on this earth to point to Him.

Those verses in Ezekiel were a stark display of how determined Israel was to worship other "gods" and how grotesque God sees that act. It was meant to cause them to be moved by this picture of their unfaithfulness. At the time the Israelites had had many years of idol worship and disobedience to God.

The Generations of people in Genesis is to mark the line of the messiah (luke 3:29-38) which would fulfill the prophesy in Gen 3:15

The details of the Ark, like the temple, are a picture of Christ. God always gives details to buildings that are metaphors for Christ. In the account of the ark God sends the animals on the Ark and then he closes the door to the ark. Afterwards he opens the door when they are on dry land. It shows those who are in Christ, through repenting of their sins and confession that Jesus is their Lord and Savior,  will be saved from God's wrath like Noah and his family were saved.

The Jewish law has many purposes 1) to display God's holiness 2) to set Israel apart 3) to help people see their sinful state and their need for a savior. 4) to keep people healthy and keep order

All these I would say display that God is a promise keeper, values faithfulness, seeks to teach and keep order, and will judge unrighteousness.

(August 4, 2015 at 1:15 pm)Brakeman Wrote:

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: When the church speaks of the complete works of God we don't mean all the words of God that are spoken to His people but that the Bible has all the necessary parts.

Oh yes it does! That is exactly what the complete "Word" of god means. It would be silly otherwise as you would be excluding other possible commandments. If god told you that exposing toes in public is a sin, then it would make no sense whatsoever that this new commandment wouldn't be included. To claim it is the only necessary parts is faulty because who is to judge god's word as to what is necessary or not? God  hasn't published a list of what scriptures are necessary and what scriptures aren't. The composed bibles were made canon by judgment of truth, not necessity. They included All the scripture that was felt to be god verified by the spirit, they didn't canonize into the bible any bible school lessons or any bible "fanfic" as the goal was to address all of god's word and all of the spirit verified histories.

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: ..
You already admit that you don't believe in God and that make you a fool (psalms 14:1). Romans 1:18-22 speaks about how with your denial of God your suppress the truth about God and He hates that. This is because when you suppress the truth about Him you are are promoting a lie. You are promoting evil instead of good. Rebellion instead of harmony. You are causing others to sin with your propaganda against God. He created you and gives you the breath in your lungs and you spit in his face call Him a tyrant and evil.

Of course I can't spit in his face because he hides from me. He hides from everyone and has convinced you that his missing presence is "normal." I believe what seems reasonable and logical inside my little human brain. The conclusion of fact, or belief, is not a choice of mine. I can only fake believing something if I don't. So the brain god gave me and the experiences god allowed me to see have convinced me that god is an imaginary construct of primitive men. Because I am honest and true to my fellow man, your god calls me evil and a rebel and wants to burn and torture me forever without bothering to show his face to me and without talking to me. He would rather torture me forever than reveal himself to me for a moment. That's your god of love.. Some Love! He doesn't give a man a chance to believe him after death because he would be revealed. God is completely unforgiving after our fragile weak bodies cease and no amount of contrition or begging would change his cruel mind.

(August 4, 2015 at 12:18 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: ..So God can appease His hate for you by giving you His righteousness through the Holy Spirit that will be given to you if you accept his sacrifice for you on the cross. ..

Again, the sacrifice was desired by god, it was his made up rules that said that innocent blood has to be spilled for some weird reason. God wanted a sacrifice - god made a sacrifice - this has nothing to do with me..

complete
1. Filled up; with no part or element lacking; free from deficiency; entire; perfect; consummate. Complete perfections." Milton.

2. Finished; ended; concluded; completed; as, the edifice is complete.
This course of vanity almost complete. Prior.

Your unwillingness to use your logic and reason correctly is not God's fault. You are choosing a lie over the truth by ignoring what is plain about God (through the physical, spiritual and mental areas of your life). Since you will not humble yourself (accept that you are not the starting point in understanding the world) in order to hear God He is sending you messengers to tell you that you need to humble yourself. God is fully capable of showing Himself and will but you have no say about when He will do so (Mark 14:62). Since I am still talking to you then you may have time still to respond to His call for repentance in order to know Him. If you continue to resist Him there will come a time when God stops talking to you and then you will be judged for your disobedience. You can sincerely request an audience with Him but to sit as judge over Him and His words will only lead to your destruction. God's rules are not arbitrary but are based on His Holiness, which is all things that are good and pure, and again you only show your lack of understand for what is good by rejecting it. Jesus had to be the perfect and holy sacrifice for all of sin because He is the only one who could fulfill the law and simultaneously pay for all sin. He had to be a man to pay for men's debt and be God to have the strength and power to defeat all sin. You can pretend, like Pilate did, and try to wash your hands of Jesus' blood (matt 27:24) but by rejecting the sacrifice that was paid for you on the cross is just another example of why you don't understand your sinful state. You need to repentant of your sins so that your understanding can also be redeemed and your thinking can be made clear through washing of your sins through Christ sacrifice. See sin doesn't just effect for spiritual life but your cognitive life as well. You tell yourself lies that make you think that you can escape reality but the truth will always come to light.

(August 5, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: Your unwillingness to use your logic and reason correctly is not God's fault. You are choosing a lie over the truth by ignoring what is plain about God (through the physical, spiritual and mental areas of your life). Since you will not humble yourself (accept that you are not the starting point in understanding the world) in order to hear God He is sending you messengers to tell you that you need to humble yourself.

So I have a question for you: why should any of us engage with what you have to say if you're just going to stoop to such slimy, dishonest well poisoning?

(August 5, 2015 at 3:09 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(August 5, 2015 at 12:52 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: Your unwillingness to use your logic and reason correctly is not God's fault. You are choosing a lie over the truth by ignoring what is plain about God (through the physical, spiritual and mental areas of your life). Since you will not humble yourself (accept that you are not the starting point in understanding the world) in order to hear God He is sending you messengers to tell you that you need to humble yourself.

So I have a question for you: why should any of us engage with what you have to say if you're just going to stoop to such slimy, dishonest well poisoning?

How am i being dishonest?

How about if God wants to say something to us, let him say it himself. Why does he need so much help communicating?

(August 6, 2015 at 8:38 am)robvalue Wrote: How about if God wants to say something to us, let him say it himself. Why does he need so much help communicating?

You will not humble yourself (accept that you are not the starting point in understanding the world) in order to hear God He is sending you messengers to tell you that you need to humble yourself so that you may hear from Him.

(August 6, 2015 at 8:32 am)Rekeisha Wrote:

(August 5, 2015 at 3:09 pm)Esquilax Wrote: So I have a question for you: why should any of us engage with what you have to say if you're just going to stoop to such slimy, dishonest well poisoning?

How am i being dishonest?

And how am i well poisoning?

Ah, so god can't communicate with me. My powers of being unhumble are greater than the powers of god.

If he's not powerful enough to send me a simple message, how come you are?

(August 6, 2015 at 10:04 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah, so god can't communicate with me. My powers of being unhumble are greater than the powers of god.

If he's not powerful enough to send me a simple message, how come you are?

Rekeisha is powerful enough to send you a message because Rekeisha is a real person. That's how that works. Real people can do things to non-fictional people, whereas fictional people cannot...hence Gaud's difficulty speaking for himself.

(August 6, 2015 at 10:04 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah, so god can't communicate with me. My powers of being unhumble are greater than the powers of god.

If he's not powerful enough to send me a simple message, how come you are?

God won't speak to you if your are prideful
Proverbs 16:5 The Lord detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

But if you are humble He will listen.
Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.

If you really want to speak to God He will make Himself available
Jeremiah 29:13 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.


So here are the very words of God (Jesus)
John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

If you want to speak to God He has made Himself known through creation, the Bible, and His people. If you can not be faithful to listen to these first why Should God speak to you in any other way? Still if you reject these you will meet Him as a Judge and not a Savior Mark 14:62