Just some background before I get into the discussion topics for you guys:
I attend a small private University which has no set denomination or religion. One reason I looked into this school was for that reason. I come from a highly religious small community and wanted to get away from all the religious pressure I was experiencing there. I was hoping coming here would allow me to feel more open about my beliefs and not be so scared to express them-but it has done the opposite.

I'm in choir and we've been rehearsing for the Christmas concert since August. We're singing about 13 pieces and 12 of the 13 are sacred. I understand Christmas is a Christian holiday but I also know Christmas has numerous secular songs and almost has a separate identity in US culture with Santa, gifts, ect. Last year we sang this cute "12 Days of Christmas" tune that was fun (and was secular). I can't help but feel offended and oppressed when I'm singing about the glory of Jesus and God when I don't believe in either...and I came to this school thinking I could get away from pretending I believe something I don't.

It's also becoming a slight issue in my science class. My teacher will often say "because God made it that way" for things that just occur in nature. She doesn't do it often but it just makes me realize I'm right where I didn't want to be.

Christianity seems to be following me everywhere on campus...

So this brings me to some tough questions:

1. Is it alright for the choir to be singing so many sacred songs? It is for a Christian holiday but the University doesn't have an official religion. Why sing just Christian songs? Why not throw some secular and maybe even Jewish songs in there too? Does the fact that we're singing for a Christian holiday justify my University singing sacred songs despite there being numerous secular songs for Christmas?
   
2. Whose rights outweigh whose? In the United States there is the freedom of religion...but when does it get to the point that you're actions are stepping on someone else's rights? If I were to protest and get us singing secular songs would that be stepping on their rights to practice their religion for a religious holiday?
   
3. What point is too far? I understand incidents like my teacher aren't that important since she doesn't do it often and I could always complain...but what point is it just too much? At what point does expressing your faith become an attempt to convert others to your faith?
   

Like I said...some hard questions. I've been pondering my personal answers to these questions but often get blocked by my bitterness toward the school and religion. I do my best not to let it bias me but in this case I feel like religion is being shoved down my throat and I can't escape it. I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about these answers...not only do I wanna hear many angles to these questions but I'm also curious to see what you guys really think.

1) Crazy thing to do

Test it to see where they draw the line.

Dress up as a devil, claim it is a Satanist national holiday and play thrash metal (backwards and not too loudly, comparable to the choir's volume) on the University grounds.

If that doesn't get their attention then move onto phase 2.

Start handing out small packs of Sulfur with "Momento from Hell" written on it and ask people "Have you heard the bad news?". Start talking to them about how easy it is to convert to Satanism, just one little sin is all it takes. Surely they just want to gorge on some chocolate or covet a neighbor's ass. Explain how nice it will be in the afterlife in hell. Explain how hell has all the best musicians and artists, etc, and if they want to argue you can also remind them that hell has all the lawyers as well.

Surely by this point you would have the attention of the university authorities, at which point you can start making comparisons between your performance and the christian singing.

2) Normal thing to do

As they are celebrating a Christian holiday I don't see the problem with religious songs. However, if the school is meant to be open on the topic of religion, then try and rustle up a few muslims/jews/whatever, and try and organize an alternate faith event. See how the school reacts to that.

(October 25, 2010 at 8:23 pm)katinator44 Wrote: Just some background before I get into the discussion topics for you guys:
I attend a small private University which has no set denomination or religion. One reason I looked into this school was for that reason. I come from a highly religious small community and wanted to get away from all the religious pressure I was experiencing there. I was hoping coming here would allow me to feel more open about my beliefs and not be so scared to express them-but it has done the opposite.

I'm in choir and we've been rehearsing for the Christmas concert since August. We're singing about 13 pieces and 12 of the 13 are sacred. I understand Christmas is a Christian holiday but I also know Christmas has numerous secular songs and almost has a separate identity in US culture with Santa, gifts, ect. Last year we sang this cute "12 Days of Christmas" tune that was fun (and was secular). I can't help but feel offended and oppressed when I'm singing about the glory of Jesus and God when I don't believe in either...and I came to this school thinking I could get away from pretending I believe something I don't.

It's also becoming a slight issue in my science class. My teacher will often say "because God made it that way" for things that just occur in nature. She doesn't do it often but it just makes me realize I'm right where I didn't want to be.

Christianity seems to be following me everywhere on campus...

So this brings me to some tough questions:

1. Is it alright for the choir to be singing so many sacred songs? It is for a Christian holiday but the University doesn't have an official religion. Why sing just Christian songs? Why not throw some secular and maybe even Jewish songs in there too? Does the fact that we're singing for a Christian holiday justify my University singing sacred songs despite there being numerous secular songs for Christmas?
   
2. Whose rights outweigh whose? In the United States there is the freedom of religion...but when does it get to the point that you're actions are stepping on someone else's rights? If I were to protest and get us singing secular songs would that be stepping on their rights to practice their religion for a religious holiday?
   
3. What point is too far? I understand incidents like my teacher aren't that important since she doesn't do it often and I could always complain...but what point is it just too much? At what point does expressing your faith become an attempt to convert others to your faith?
   

Like I said...some hard questions. I've been pondering my personal answers to these questions but often get blocked by my bitterness toward the school and religion. I do my best not to let it bias me but in this case I feel like religion is being shoved down my throat and I can't escape it. I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about these answers...not only do I wanna hear many angles to these questions but I'm also curious to see what you guys really think.

Well, I hate to say it but they are a private school. As such, they can do pretty much whatever they please. I'm not telling you what to do, but if it was me, I'd find another school. Any college that allows a science teacher to interject his/her religious beliefs in the science classroom is doing a disservice to the students and to itself. The next time your science teacher makes such a comment, ask her what her religous beliefs have to do with teaching you science. Frankly, I'd nail her to the wall on the issue.

(October 25, 2010 at 8:23 pm)katinator44 Wrote: It's also becoming a slight issue in my science class. My teacher will often say "because God made it that way" for things that just occur in nature. She doesn't do it often but it just makes me realize I'm right where I didn't want to be.

Oh, missed that one. Perhaps you just want to have a quiet chat with the science teacher about this. It could be that he just doesn't want to get into a particular discussion and knowing the majority in the class are religious thinks he can fob them off with such answers, which if they are religious they will probably accept. Its not good for a teacher to do this of course, as he should be promoting enquiry.

You may find that the teacher is not so religious after all.

On the other hand, if he is a brainwashed believer teaching science then its probably better if you find another school, and possibly report the teacher to the authorities. Depending on the laws where you live, teaching "God" as the answer to known scientific facts could get him into trouble.

1. Is it alright for the choir to be singing so many sacred songs? It is for a Christian holiday but the University doesn't have an official religion. Why sing just Christian songs? Why not throw some secular and maybe even Jewish songs in there too? Does the fact that we're singing for a Christian holiday justify my University singing sacred songs despite there being numerous secular songs for Christmas?
-the sacredness of a song is only held by the individual. If you don't consider them sacred then they're not. There's no reason that it can't include some beautiful secular songs or songs of other religions as well. Have you asked? Everyone celebrates the holiday with what it means to them. Are you objecting to the songs because of their origins, or are you saying that a balance of religios and secular songs is more appropriate.

2. Whose rights outweigh whose? In the United States there is the freedom of religion...but when does it get to the point that you're actions are stepping on someone else's rights? If I were to protest and get us singing secular songs would that be stepping on their rights to practice their religion for a religious holiday?
No one's rights outweighs another. I'd like to see signs and billboards that aren't anti religion, but pro-free thought. I think a lotof the Christian propoganda is anti secular establishment, and that's why there's a backlash in society. If Christianity wouldn't be so pervasively forceful and less anti-secular and more pro-Bile in a less agressive way I think it'd be more productive. Your protests are just expressing you want of a diferent song in the line up, it doesn't limit their freedoms, they may not like it, but they should respect it.


3. What point is too far? I understand incidents like my teacher aren't that important since she doesn't do it often and I could always complain...but what point is it just too much? At what point does expressing your faith become an attempt to convert others to your faith?
If there is mutual respect and an opennes from both sides expressing your beliefs, whaever they are, isn't an attempt to convert. It's the point where you go from trying to see the other person's perspective and clearing up their misnomers, and the point where they're force feeding you stuff you've rebutted over again. Good Christian witnessing, IMO, delivers a message and that's it, it's up to the other person to come half way and want to hear the message.

There are only two fair options I can see: either total freedom which means expressions of all religions, no religion, anti-religion or secular public tranquility.

But seeing as religious people currently outnumber non-religious people, this ideal state may be a dream. People are highly unlikely to be fair, if it is to their advantage to be unfair.

(October 28, 2010 at 1:12 am)FadingW Wrote: But seeing as religious people currently outnumber non-religious people,

Depends on where you live.