(August 31, 2015 at 12:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: Life experiences, sure. So if I went to be a true Christian, my only hope is to persue life experiences which might make me able to believe such a claim?

If so, it may well be possible that the only "experiences" capable of making me believe that claim involve directly screwing around with my brain using surgery/drugs.

This is all a bit weird, yeah?

Haha, well if that's what it would take for you, then I guess so! I guess everyone is different.

I'm pretty confident that is what it would take.

So, do you think God would prefer I stay an atheist, or screw with my brain and become a True Christian? Those appear to be my only two options.

(August 31, 2015 at 12:27 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm pretty confident that is what it would take.

So, do you think God would prefer I stay an atheist, or screw with my brain and become a True Christian? Those appear to be my only two options.

My take is that He's not going to "screw with your brain" or with anybody's brain because that would require taking away your free will and your sense of self.

(August 31, 2015 at 12:12 pm)robvalue Wrote: [...]If so, it may well be possible that the only "experiences" capable of making me believe that claim involve directly screwing around with my brain using surgery/drugs.
[...]

Tried drugs. No god there...

Just an enormous hedgehog, named Spiny Norman...

(August 31, 2015 at 11:48 am)Divinity Wrote: No, it'd be more like this:

If you won the lottery, and wanted to give people some of your winnings.  But you didn't tell anyone that you won the lottery, and didn't send out any invites.  You just expect them to show up.  And those that do show up, you expect to follow certain rules, some of which don't make any sense.  Like you expect them to wear sandals on their hands, and to not carry a wallet on them.

Sorry, that's not how it works. my analogy my parameters. Answer the question following the parameters I provided if you want to play. If not your strawmen will speak for you.

(August 31, 2015 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: Belief isn't a choice, so by this criteria no one has any control over whether they can or can't be a true christian. I'm instantly out of the running, and there's nothing I can do about it. People can choose to assess all the evidence, but they can't choose to believe something they don't believe, or vice versa. This is headed for the calvanist view.

For example, I can't choose to believe I can fly, no matter how much I might want it to be true. I'd have to really mess with my brain in some serious ways to achieve such a belief. I could probably still convince myself of that more readily than I could convince myself there was a man walking about who was the son of god.

You can choose to say you believe it, of course. Why this would be impressive to anyone, and especially god, I don't know!

And such is an example of a narrow mind.

I flew to boston, NYC, Philly, Miami and several other places just in the last year or so. The problem with 'narrow minds' are that they lock in a singular definition or concept and will not allow any expansion of that definition or concept. Which is why I said you provided an excellent example of a narrow minded person at work. Your idea of flight is that of a bee or bird, and in your example you would not or could not allow any other ways of flight to be possible. The problem is there are many different ways man can acheave flight. just like their is a different way to find God outside of what you tried... But like with your example of flight your mind is already made up, and it will not be change? Why do you hold fast to your confirmation bias? Because it allows you to live/justify the life you think you want to live.

God will gladly see you to Hell before intrupting your confirmation bias. That said if you can look past your own self supporting arguments you will indeed see that the world is larger than the narrow definations you provided on it.

(August 31, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Drich Wrote: Sorry, that's not how it works. my analogy my parameters. Answer the question following the parameters I provided if you want to play. If not your strawmen will speak for you.

Well your analogy was fucking stupid, so I fixed it. You don't get to set the goddamn rules.

(August 31, 2015 at 12:29 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 31, 2015 at 12:27 pm)robvalue Wrote: I'm pretty confident that is what it would take.

So, do you think God would prefer I stay an atheist, or screw with my brain and become a True Christian? Those appear to be my only two options.

My take is that He's not going to "screw with your brain" or with anybody's brain because that would require taking away your free will and your sense of self.

I meant me deciding to screw with my own brain, to alter it so I can believe things I otherwise couldn't. Would that be preferable to him than not being able to believe at all?

The only other way my beliefs could change is new evidence, and that seems unlikely. So it's up to him really, he can show me new evidence if he wants.

(August 31, 2015 at 2:05 pm)Divinity Wrote:

(August 31, 2015 at 1:54 pm)Drich Wrote: Sorry, that's not how it works. my analogy my parameters. Answer the question following the parameters I provided if you want to play. If not your strawmen will speak for you.

Well your analogy was fucking stupid, so I fixed it.  You don't get to set the goddamn rules.

The analogy was accurate that is why you do not want to address the terms of it and move to dismiss by name calling.

If you want me to change the terms I will concede to changing/adding that you do not invite those who you have intention to give money yourself, you have those in whom you have already gifted your lotto winnings to invite the rest of your elected group. And the group demands a personal invitation before they will come to the party you are hosting, to give them a life changing amount of money to...

All better now? Because now the analogy reflects the fact that God has yet to offer a personal invitation to you/those like you, and you demand God to beg you to seek atonement before you will do so..

Calling your analogy fucking stupid isn't name calling. If I were calling you names, you would know it. So don't hide behind that.

And your analogy still doesn't work. you'd have to change it to those who don't already have their lotto winnings, and expecting people to follow some rules that they don't agree with, without first proof of the lotto winnings.

If I were to say to you:
-Give me 10% of your income for the rest of your life
-Don't kill anybody, unless in self defense.
-Don't rob from anybody
-Don't wear shoes indoors
-Don't eat any dairy products, or drink any milk.
-Don't have sex ever again
-Believe a guy named Chuck created the universe in 8 days, and that the universe is only 50 years old. Only if you really believe this will you receive your reward
And upon your death your family will receive $50,000,000,000

I'd hope you'd want proof.