(September 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 26, 2015 at 11:26 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Yes, I watched the Ehrman-vs-InfidelGuy video you linked to. Ehrman speaks of Paul's writings as indicating that Paul's "throwaway" comments about James the brother of Jesus indicates to him that Paul knew the friends and family of Jesus. That may well be the case, but it is nevertheless an inference. Again, and I want to make this plain since you seem to be arguing as though I think Jesus didn't exist: I am convinced by the totality of the circumstantial evidence that Jesus was a real person. [emphasis added]  The place where he says it's "hard" evidence seemed not to be a statement of fact, but exasperation at InfidelGuy's aggressive and repeated claim that Jesus never existed, an emotional retort rather than a statement of historical fact, if you will, which is why Ehrman launched into discussions of things like the existence of Julius Caesar and the Holocaust.

As a believer, I'm often appalled by the things which some Christians say and do thereby causing God's name to be blasphemed among non-believers.

As a non-believer, do you ever cringe upon reading the stupid things that Jesus Mythicists say in this forum and elsewhere which bring the credibility of atheism into question?

Yes, Jesus mythicists (not here in this forum necessarily but in general) do tend to say some really silly shit that makes you wonder whether they've really done proper research in fields like this, but I have very similar thoughts about Christian theists in general who say that the resurrection of Jesus is historically well-established. Please, you're no better than they.

(September 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: credibility of atheism

What?

(September 27, 2015 at 12:55 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 26, 2015 at 7:00 am)pocaracas Wrote: yeah... but there were several alleged bishops/priests preaching a slightly different message, on several places.

<clipped for clarity>

how can we tell that the true teachings of Jesus are the ones preached by the catholic church?
The notion of the trinity comes well after the fact - would this view still be held, if the roman christians hadn't accepted Paul's teachings?

And yes, I know I'm mixing a bunch of stuff into one bag, but, like you know so well, it's a broad subject.

Simple enough, poca.

The bishops who disagreed with one another held councils to consider these matters. After much discussion and debate, some ideas were identified as orthodox and others were judged heretical.

It isn't like Rubio, Cruz, Trump and Bush all espousing slightly different variations of a "conservative" message that you can pick and choose from. In the case of theology, some things are right and some things are wrong. Others are uncertain and left as open questions.

When Arius put forth his ideas, Athanasius stood against him. It took awhile, but Athanasius' views ultimately carried the day.

And yet, in the 8th century, across the pond, in Egypt, some people - not any people, but monks - still used the gospel by Peter.
I'm thinking those councils didn't work so well, even after the first one, at Nicea... who can say anything about what happened before this one?

And you said it right: some things are right, some things are wrong - what sort of god leaves so much to be guessed by upcoming theologians? How accurate are the guesses of the church of Rome, considering all that was indeed guessed about Jesus at the time?
I'm guessing this god failed utterly to properly convey his message... again!
Where did he convey it? Jerusalem.... is now Jewish, like it was before Jesus... but spent some time being muslim... oh, christianity never took off in there, huh? I wonder why...

Why do people follow such a failure of a god?

(September 27, 2015 at 1:29 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(September 27, 2015 at 1:08 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: All this time here and you still don't know what atheism is.
I won't tell you again, it tires me to repeat the same things to the same people over and over again.

Are you ever embarrassed by stupid arguments made by people who don't believe that God exists in their efforts to disprove theism?

What stupid arguments are these pray tell?

(September 26, 2015 at 2:36 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: You want a Sacraficial Lamb to prove that your God exists?
Pray for him to kill me.
I will reply if you ask me if I am still alive.
That rules out at the very least a God that wishes to prove his presence, as it could just as easily stop me from replying to you as kill me.

Still Alive.

(September 27, 2015 at 12:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Yes I know, but she also mentioned that his existence was not universally accepted.

Right so the case for Socrates is not universally accepted, but the case for Jesus is. What's your point?

(September 27, 2015 at 12:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: But you cant prove it, just make a case. this is the point.

I have said that many times. It has been established beyond the doubt of the vast majority of modern scholars.

(September 27, 2015 at 12:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: I disagree. The evidence I have seen for Jesus seems to be weak. But then I must repeat my position that I think there probably was a historical jesus, but this is just my opinion and I could not support his existence to my satisfatction.

Well you are not a historian and cannot decide whether the case for his existence is strong or weak.

Let's take James and his clear references to the sayings of Jesus - each taken individually it isn't a particularly strong or convincing reason to believe the sayings have pre-existed. But the fact he does it so many times makes the case extremely strong.

(September 27, 2015 at 12:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Someone else.

Who? And how is James referencing it before it was invented and written down 35 years later (according to your point of view)?

(September 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: As a believer, I'm often appalled by the things which some Christians say and do thereby causing God's name to be blasphemed among non-believers.

As a non-believer, do you ever cringe upon reading the stupid things that Jesus Mythicists say in this forum and elsewhere which bring the credibility of atheism into question?

*my edits*

Jesus fucking Christ, Randy. 

How many fucking times have you been told what atheism is and is not? 

You blithering, disingenuous, ass.

(September 27, 2015 at 9:48 pm)Starvald Demelain Wrote:

(September 27, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: As a believer, I'm often appalled by the things which some Christians say and do thereby causing God's name to be blasphemed among non-believers.

As a non-believer, do you ever cringe upon reading the stupid things that Jesus Mythicists say in this forum and elsewhere which bring the credibility of atheism into question?

*my edits*

Jesus fucking Christ, Randy. 

How many fucking times have you been told what atheism is and is not? 

You blithering, disingenuous, ass.

C'mon, SD, don't hold back.

Tell him how you really feel!