Quote:According to Acts 1:15 there were only 120 believers. What happened to the other 380?

But contradictions in the testimony are. Even taking Christian scripture at face value, there are a lot of problems. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you think of John's epsitles regarding the early Christians who didn't believe in a flesh-and-blood Jesus 1John 4:1-3 or 2John 1:7 and how Paul flatly denies that Jesus had lived within his lifetime 1Cor 15:8

Acts 1:15 relates the day of Pentacost when 120 were present when the Holy Spirit descended, not Jesus. I Cor.15:6 says 500 saw Jesus at once, but we do not know when.

I believe it was the gnostics that claimed Jesus was not human; that He was only a spirit that appeared to be human. John refutes this teaching. It was not Christians that denied Jesus.

Paul did not flatly deny that Jesus lived in his life time. Here is the quote: 1 Corinthians 15:8 "And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." The last phrase "born out of due time" is the translation of the Greek word "ektroma". This word is only used once in the Bible and it means "miscarriage". Paul was stating that he was not worthy to have seen Jesus.

Marvelous - using one fairy tale to support another.

You are predictable if nothing else, Chap.

Minimalist,
A question was asked about the Bible...I answered the question. If folks don't want Biblical answers, they should not ask Biblical questions or post Biblical nonsense.

As far as your other post, I’m sorry, but your age does not impress me. Age is not an indication of wisdom. It is quite possible for one to be an old fool.

I am very familiar with the writings of the apostate Bart Ehrman. I am not impressed with him either. Neither are most critics. He is proof that it is possible to be an educated fool.

If you want to throw scholars around…what about Christian scholars? Men like John R. Rice, Lester Roloff, Charles Stanley, Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel. I can produce as many Christian scholars as you can produce atheist scholars. Maybe more.

Here’s the deal: There is Biblical and secular evidence for Jesus, yet there is not even one writing from that period to refute His existence. Now, if you wish not to believe, that is your right. But you cannot prove that He did not exist. You cannot disprove anything about Jesus with anything other than your personal beliefs.

Now let’s examine your language. Are you telling me that after a college education and 62 years of living, you do not have an extensive enough vocabulary that you must resort to using four letter words? I consider this a victory of sorts. If I get atheists to start swearing at me, that means I’m getting in their craw.

Quote:A question was asked about the Bible...I answered the question. If folks don't want Biblical answers, they should not ask Biblical questions or post Biblical nonsense.

Ah...so only believers can evaluate your nonsense? How very convenient. The muslims say the same shit about the koran.

Surely you do not think you are the first bible-thumper to show up here thinking that all you have to do is sprinkle a little jesus dust around? You are merely the latest in a long parade.

Quote:As far as your other post, I’m sorry, but your age does not impress me. Age is not an indication of wisdom. It is quite possible for one to be an old fool.

You asked a queston and I answered. So anyone who doesn't accept your absurd god is a fool? Go fuck yourself, pal. You have just reverted completely to form. I sure as shit do not care that you are a "preacher." As far as I am concerned that makes you little more than a parasite. In the words of H. L. Mencken:

Quote: What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an imaginary hell.

Quote:I am very familiar with the writings of the apostate Bart Ehrman. I am not impressed with him either. Neither are most critics. He is proof that it is possible to be an educated fool.

And what are you? Proof of an uneducated fool.

Enough of your bullshit. You are nothing but a religious shitwad. Go blow fucking jesus out your ass. Go back to your trailer park baptists and pretend that fucking jesus is watching over them.

Moron.

(December 1, 2010 at 1:35 pm)Chapabel Wrote: Acts 1:15 relates the day of Pentacost when 120 were present when the Holy Spirit descended, not Jesus. I Cor.15:6 says 500 saw Jesus at once, but we do not know when.

According to the Bible, the 500 that saw Jesus fly up into the sky were "his bretheren" around Jerusalem at the time of his resurrection and ascension.

Quote:1Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: ...
1Cor 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; ...

This means the event occurred prior to the meeting of the disciples where 120 believers were counted.

Quote:Acts 1:3 To whom (the apostles) also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
...
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
...
Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

So the order of events is:
1. Jesus resurrected
2. Jesus flew up into the sky in front of 500 bretheren
3. The bretheren met afterwords and their number mysteriously dropped to 120

Quote:I believe it was the gnostics that claimed Jesus was not human; that He was only a spirit that appeared to be human. John refutes this teaching. It was not Christians that denied Jesus.

It's sometimes assumed by apologists that the passage refers to the Docetic Christians, who were a sect of Christianity (at least they thought so). This isn't certain from the epistles, since these "antichrists" aren't named but let that go.

John lived allegedly within the lifetime of Jesus so one can assume that he was writing to people who also lived within his lifetime. One wonders why Christians would choose to believe that Jesus was a phantom when surely he had family and neighbors who could have testified that he was a real person. Jesus grew up in a small town where everyone would have known him. Could they not say that he was a baby born under mysterious circumstances through Mary? Did the gifts from the kings that made them so rich not become a famous event in such a small town?

Most importantly, why would Christians choose to ignore such a patently obvious and recent reality and instead invent some elaborate fantasy that he was but an illusion?

Quote:Paul did not flatly deny that Jesus lived in his life time. Here is the quote: 1 Corinthians 15:8 "And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." The last phrase "born out of due time" is the translation of the Greek word "ektroma". This word is only used once in the Bible and it means "miscarriage". Paul was stating that he was not worthy to have seen Jesus.

So Paul is saying he's a miscarriage and that's why he's not worthy to have been seen by Jesus? I don't follow you here.

Aside, one wonders where the chief prosecutor of the Jews, a man so obviously interested in persecuting Christians, was during the time that Jesus was allegedly driving the priests so nuts that they met on Passover Eve to conspire against him.

So much doesn't add up, even accepting Christian claims at face value.

(December 1, 2010 at 3:21 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:A question was asked about the Bible...I answered the question. If folks don't want Biblical answers, they should not ask Biblical questions or post Biblical nonsense.

Ah...so only believers can evaluate your nonsense? How very convenient. The muslims say the same shit about the koran.

Surely you do not think you are the first bible-thumper to show up here thinking that all you have to do is sprinkle a little jesus dust around? You are merely the latest in a long parade.

Quote:As far as your other post, I’m sorry, but your age does not impress me. Age is not an indication of wisdom. It is quite possible for one to be an old fool.

You asked a queston and I answered. So anyone who doesn't accept your absurd god is a fool? Go fuck yourself, pal. You have just reverted completely to form. I sure as shit do not care that you are a "preacher." As far as I am concerned that makes you little more than a parasite. In the words of H. L. Mencken:

Quote: What is the function that a clergyman performs in the world? Answer: he gets his living by assuring idiots that he can save them from an imaginary hell.

Quote:I am very familiar with the writings of the apostate Bart Ehrman. I am not impressed with him either. Neither are most critics. He is proof that it is possible to be an educated fool.

And what are you? Proof of an uneducated fool.

Enough of your bullshit. You are nothing but a religious shitwad. Go blow fucking jesus out your ass. Go back to your trailer park baptists and pretend that fucking jesus is watching over them.

Moron.

Victory #2. You need a hug...

(December 1, 2010 at 3:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Marvelous - using one fairy tale to support another.

That's OK Min, I have fun with their scripture even taken at face value.

DeistPaladin,

The Bible does not say that the 500 were there at Jesus' ascension. In fact if you read the next verse, it says Jesus appeared to James.

(December 1, 2010 at 3:10 pm)Chapabel Wrote: Here’s the deal: There is Biblical and secular evidence for Jesus,

As I've stated before, the Bible is proof of nothing. Show something that supports the Biblical tales. Also, present us with some of the "secular evidence for Jesus". And I'm not talking about hearsay.

Quote:yet there is not even one writing from that period to refute His existence.

And why would there be? Is there anything from the 19th century refuting the existence of Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox? Guess they must have been real, too!

Quote:Now, if you wish not to believe, that is your right. But you cannot prove that He did not exist.

Favorite Creationist Tactic #1 - shifting the burden of proof.

No, we can't prove your godboy didn't exist. We also can't prove that magical elves, invisible trolls, flying fairies and Klingons don't exist.

Quote:You cannot disprove anything about Jesus with anything other than your personal beliefs.

And you can't prove anything about Jesus with anything other than your personal beliefs and an ancient book of unknown authorship.

At least I have the Bible...what do you possess aside from personal belief?