(October 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: you said that you are convinced jesus was God because he said those words ....

No, I didn't. Quote me.

(October 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: i already did that

You quoted one site quoting one bare assertion from a wikipedia article. That's hardly support for the claim that jews never thought that the messiah was to be divine.

that is what split christianity with judaism the assertion that jesus was God ... that is what landed jesus on the cross is the misunderstanding by the jews that jesus was claiming to be God thats what the jews took issue with . if they were expecting God incarnate dont you think they wouldve been welcoming to the concept instead of angry ?

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(October 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: no but people have said that since the Bible has been written . does that make those people God too? if not why not?

As I mentioned.  It's not hard to claim to be God.  The psych wards across this country are filled with people claiming to be God.  Meaningfully sustaining the claim is what is problematic.

how did he sustain the claim of being divine ? he was killed and had rocks thrown at him

(October 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm)alpha male Wrote: You quoted one site quoting one bare assertion from a wikipedia article. That's hardly support for the claim that jews never thought that the messiah was to be divine.

that is what split christianity with judaism the assertion that jesus was God ... that is what landed jesus on the cross is the misunderstanding by the jews that jesus was claiming to be God thats what the jews took issue with . if they were expecting God incarnate dont you think they wouldve been welcoming to the concept instead of angry ?

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(October 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: As I mentioned.  It's not hard to claim to be God.  The psych wards across this country are filled with people claiming to be God.  Meaningfully sustaining the claim is what is problematic.

how did he sustain the claim of being divine ? he was killed

So then you reject the resurrection?

(October 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: you said that you are convinced jesus was God because he said those words ....

No, I didn't. Quote me.

ok if not that then explain why do you believe that jesus was God ?

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(October 20, 2015 at 4:14 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 4:12 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: that is what split christianity with judaism the assertion that jesus was God ... that is what landed jesus on the cross is the misunderstanding by the jews that jesus was claiming to be God thats what the jews took issue with . if they were expecting God incarnate dont you think they wouldve been welcoming to the concept instead of angry ?

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how did he sustain the claim of being divine ? he was killed

So then you reject the resurrection?

why was jesus only seen by his followers and did not appear to the people who had him killed to convince them that they were in fact wrong and that they did in fact kill God in the flesh ?

Hi Jenny,

Not all Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity; I have had a number of discussions with them (both categories of non-trinitarians).

One group, is going to cite a number of Scriptures, similar to your list here.  And they are going to come to many of the same conclusions that you have... Jesus is seperate and distinct from the Father, they interact, and Jesus submits to God the Father. 

The other group is going to point to a number of Scriptures and say that Jesus is God. They will show that Jesus behaves as if He is God, forgives sins, and teaches with authority.  Titles which only belong to God are attributed to Jesus, actions which where done by God, are claimed as Jesus, and Jesus is worshipped (you may note, often when some one fell down before one of the disciples or an angel, they where stopped.  The Pharisees often reacted as if Jesus was claiming to be God, When Jesus is being tempted in the wilderness, the devil recognized Jesus as the Son of God, and told Him to make the stone into bread.  This group, will then point to the oneness of God declared throughout  the scripture.  This group will often say that the Son and the Father are different aspects or faces of God.

Interestingly enough, I find that these two groups do not challenge each other.  Although I suppose that it is natural to focus on the more popular orthodox position.  The divinity of Christ is shown early in the Church.  The enemies of Christ recognized the claims and what they meant.  And also, I believe you are mistaken in stating the Bible does not call Jesus God (Hebrews 1:8 among others).

(October 20, 2015 at 10:04 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Hi Jenny,

Not all Christians believe in the doctrine of the Trinity; I have had a number of discussions with them (both categories of non-trinitarians).

One group, is going to cite a number of Scriptures, similar to your list here.  And they are going to come to many of the same conclusions that you have... Jesus is seperate and distinct from the Father, they interact, and Jesus submits to God the Father. 

The other group is going to point to a number of Scriptures and say that Jesus is God. They will show that Jesus behaves as if He is God, forgives sins, and teaches with authority.  Titles which only belong to God are attributed to Jesus, actions which where done by God, are claimed as Jesus, and Jesus is worshipped (you may note, often when some one fell down before one of the disciples or an angel, they where stopped.  The Pharisees often reacted as if Jesus was claiming to be God, When Jesus is being tempted in the wilderness, the devil recognized Jesus as the Son of God, and told Him to make the stone into bread.  This group, will then point to the oneness of God declared throughout  the scripture.  This group will often say that the Son and the Father are different aspects or faces of God.

Interestingly enough, I find that these two groups do not challenge each other.  Although I suppose that it is natural to focus on the more popular orthodox position.  The divinity of Christ is shown early in the Church.  The enemies of Christ recognized the claims and what they meant.  And also, I believe you are mistaken in stating the Bible does not call Jesus God (Hebrews 1:8 among others).

yes the title of my OP should have been Jesus does not call himself God , not the Bible does not call jesus God since antichrist pauls blasphemy has corrupted it and turned it into a cult very very early on . but christianity stayed pure and uncorrupted for a few years thats really all one can ask of any religion i suppose ...

Alarmingly few Christians seem to be aware that the bible contains known forgeries. Those that are seem unconcerned.

As far as I'm aware, every reference made by Paul to "Jesus the human" is a forgery. He was not referring to a person at all, those words have been put in his mouth. So not only are there three Jesuses (synoptic, John and Paul) only two of them are even human. Paul referred almost certainly to a celestial being.

Not that the "original" accounts prove anything anyway. People can make up and write down any shit they want. Or they can be deluded.

(October 21, 2015 at 1:14 am)robvalue Wrote: Alarmingly few Christians seem to be aware that the bible contains known forgeries. Those that are seem unconcerned.

As far as I'm aware, every reference made by Paul to "Jesus the human" is a forgery. He was not referring to a person at all, those words have been put in his mouth. So not only are there three Jesuses (synoptic, John and Paul) only two of them are even human. Paul referred almost certainly to a celestial being.

Not that the "original" accounts prove anything anyway. People can make up and write down any shit they want. Or they can be deluded.

Why would you think a man who claims he had a blinding vision on the side of a highway was deluded?

Call it a hunch

Oh, right, I remember now.

Quote:Individuals with schizophrenia may hear voices that are not there. [...] There is, to date, no physical or laboratory test that can absolutely diagnose schizophrenia. The doctor, a psychiatrist, will make a diagnosis based on the patient's clinical symptoms. However, physical testing can rule out some other disorders and conditions which sometimes have similar symptoms, such as seizure disorders, thyroid dysfunction, brain tumor, drug use, and metabolic disorders. [...] Delusions - The patient has false beliefs of persecution, guilt of grandeur. He/she may feel things are being controlled from outside. It is not uncommon for people with schizophrenia to describe plots against them. They may think they have extraordinary powers and gifts. Some patients with schizophrenia may hide in order to protect themselves from an imagined persecution.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/36942.php