(October 20, 2015 at 9:48 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Kind of like how you don't believe in FSM but at the same time you do. 

Show me a forum devoted to people "without belief in FSM" and get together to reassure themselves they are rational and that there is no proofs of FSM and no basis to faith in FSM. Go ahead. I'm waiting. Then you might have an argument.

Your in the forum right now!  FSM is a fan of the atheists they ask hard questions also they don't worship a pedophile.

(October 20, 2015 at 12:47 pm)JBrentonK Wrote: well, houseofcantor, at least I am not so evidently atheist! O_O

It's evident as fuck to me. You're an obvious atheist. Your satire is becoming genuinely funny lately. Thank fuck the stupid shit about Killingsworth hasn't continued lately.

That wasn't funny. Do more funny stuff. Dance for me circus boy dance!

(October 20, 2015 at 11:43 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:20 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The Quran designates the family of Mohammad (42:23/25:57) as the path towards God, in which attachment and love to them leads straight to God.

Exactly who the family of Mohammad is to be known through hadiths.

There is only one set of hadiths naming all his successors - and we can know - that being commanded to obey them (4:59), they would be named and designated by God and his Prophet. As such the hadiths naming the 12 Imams and numbering them stand as a proof for all humans who believe in the Quran.

No one is saying we should fight over this issue:

"And if a party of you believe and another party don't believe then wait patiently till God judges between us with truth and God is the best of judges".-Quran

The hadith literature is based on spoken reports that were in circulation in society and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries, generations after the death of Muhammad

Unlike the Quran itself, which was compiled under the official direction of the early Islamic State in Medinah, the hadith reports were not compiled by a central authority.

so you are going to trust rumors and spoken "reports"  ... these hadiths .... that who knows who contributed to collected generations after Muhammad ? and base this constant fighting on the information contained in one of these highly questionable word of mouth hadiths?

If you believe in Quran, you have to believe in the family of Mohammad. And if you believe in them, you have to believe hadiths are of value, even if you can't determine each hadith with certainty.

(October 19, 2015 at 11:03 am)JBrentonK Wrote: So, are you an atheist, or do you just believe that you are?

Oh, without a doubt I just believe I am an atheist.  I have very little idea what would count as a god.  So if it turns out to be something fairly banal it could turn out I actually am not an atheist.  It just isn't really anything I worry about.  

Being an atheist isn't a thing.  It is just a provisional term to describe a lack of belief in some crazy idea that no one can demonstrate.

(October 20, 2015 at 11:48 pm)Evie Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 12:47 pm)JBrentonK Wrote: well, houseofcantor, at least I am not so evidently atheist! O_O

It's evident as fuck to me. You're an obvious atheist. Your satire is becoming genuinely funny lately. Thank fuck the stupid shit about Killingsworth hasn't continued lately.

That wasn't funny. Do more funny stuff. Dance for me circus boy dance!

There fixed that for you

(October 20, 2015 at 11:38 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:22 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: do you honestly believe the religion of Islam has made the world a better place and created love and unity among people in this world ? what about all the many wars involving your religion ? isnt war the opposite of peace and the opposite of what God wants ?

The Jews were trusted with the Prophets, but they didn't help them and corrupted their religion. Then that nation became a burden to the world as other nations that corrupted God's revelation did.  Although God took it upon himself to safeguard the Quran, it's interpretation was so bad and that it was corrupted in meaning (not in words) so bad, and not put into practice till this day,  that the people clinging to the book became a burden to the world and source of corruption and darkness. 

Even the Shia don't hold the light of the Quran and the family of Mohammad as it ought to be held, because they didn't help the Imams when they required their help, but were cowards in love with the world.

The followers of the path of the name/face of God and the designated Guides of God, are in fact, very few. You don't know them. 

All we can do is try our best to not distort the Quran and succumb to corruption and evil of the dark forces regarding it and regarding the religion. As well, we ought to be careful not to support injustice no matter which leader it is.

Work for justice, peace, and spirituality (recognition of God's Name) and love towards God, his light, and degrees of his light in all creation.

We do our best, but no one has the right to claim they are representatives of the true religion this day. The Quran is among the people but not among them. The people of the Quran are among them people but not among them. 

Pray earnestly with Suratal Fatiha and turn to God frequently, and hopefully, you will be lead by the divine Guide of our time.

well at least you admit your religion has become flawed and corrupted i admire your honesty not many people will admit that truth about their religion .

(October 20, 2015 at 11:51 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: well at least you admit your religion has become flawed and corrupted i admire your honesty not many people will admit that truth about their religion .

Yeah it's a bitter reality. But much warning of Quran was so to avoid this fate, and it warned about such fate implicitly and explicitly, emphasizing not to be like the nations of the past. Patience. Patience. Patience.

(October 20, 2015 at 11:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:43 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: The hadith literature is based on spoken reports that were in circulation in society and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries, generations after the death of Muhammad

Unlike the Quran itself, which was compiled under the official direction of the early Islamic State in Medinah, the hadith reports were not compiled by a central authority.

so you are going to trust rumors and spoken "reports"  ... these hadiths .... that who knows who contributed to collected generations after Muhammad ? and base this constant fighting on the information contained in one of these highly questionable word of mouth hadiths?

If you believe in Quran, you have to believe in the family of Mohammad. And if you believe in them, you have to believe hadiths are of value, even if you can't determine each hadith with certainty.

no you do not have to blindly follow everything about your religion ... religion goes wrong and becomes corrupted . why couldnt the hadiths be corrupted ? inspired by the devil to create fighting and division ?

you admit that you cant determine the hadiths with certainty yet your fighting and killing over them ???! seriously ?  a bum off the street couldve written that one you have no idea who wrote it or what kind of relationship that person had to God or the devil . it certainly has caused a lot of human death and has caused people to go against the Quran and be divided that one hadith right?

(October 21, 2015 at 12:02 am)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you believe in Quran, you have to believe in the family of Mohammad. And if you believe in them, you have to believe hadiths are of value, even if you can't determine each hadith with certainty.

no you do not have to blindly follow everything about your religion ... religion goes wrong and becomes corrupted . why couldnt the hadiths be corrupted ? inspired by the devil to create fighting and division ?

you admit that you cant determine the hadiths with certainty yet your fighting and killing over them ???! seriously ?  a bum off the street couldve written that one you have no idea who wrote it or what kind of relationship that person had to God or the devil . it certainly has caused a lot of human death and has caused people to go against the Quran and be divided that one right?

No one is saying to blindly follow anything. However there is a study of tawatur (well established hadiths), and hadiths often given insights and vision and are a light.

Hadiths obviously have been corrupted but not all hadiths. Hadiths are still of value, even though many of them are corrupted.

(October 21, 2015 at 12:02 am)jenny1972 Wrote:

(October 20, 2015 at 11:49 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: If you believe in Quran, you have to believe in the family of Mohammad. And if you believe in them, you have to believe hadiths are of value, even if you can't determine each hadith with certainty.

no you do not have to blindly follow everything about your religion ... religion goes wrong and becomes corrupted . why couldnt the hadiths be corrupted ? inspired by the devil to create fighting and division ?

you admit that you cant determine the hadiths with certainty yet your fighting and killing over them ???! seriously ?  a bum off the street couldve written that one you have no idea who wrote it or what kind of relationship that person had to God or the devil . it certainly has caused a lot of human death and has caused people to go against the Quran and be divided that one hadith right?

Jenny this is why people are atheists the corruption of religion does harm.