Quote:  MysticKnight    

Quote:Aoi Magi  -Wall Of Trash snipped-

Aww, It's nice when two delusional people find another, Now you can stone some infidels together. 

(October 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm):)XD Wrote: So this asshole is trying to covert me to Islam. So I asked him if Allah loves his worshipers so much, how come muslims are able to suffer from pain and agony? His response was Allah was testing their faith and when they die they will be granted a paradise free from suffering in the afterlife -_-. How do I respond?

"Go fuck yourself" is usually a winning gambit.

(October 30, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(October 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm):)XD Wrote: So this asshole is trying to covert me to Islam. So I asked him if Allah loves his worshipers so much, how come muslims are able to suffer from pain and agony? His response was Allah was testing their faith and when they die they will be granted a paradise free from suffering in the afterlife -_-. How do I respond?

Tell him the spaghetti monster will turn Allah into pasta and boil Allah until it is el dental, and then add him along with any other Muslims found loitering in Muslim heaven as seasoning for consumption during the pastafarian banquette at the end of time.

El Dental, is that the feared Mexican mobster dentist played by Trejo?

(October 30, 2015 at 10:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 30, 2015 at 10:34 pm)Beccs Wrote: "Isn't allah all knowing?"

"Yes."

"Then why does he need to test his followers?  Either he's not all knowing, as you claim, he's evil and gets a kick out of the suffering of his followers, or he doesn't exist."

God knows all things that are possible to know. He will come to know the patient and truthful per Quran, that is because future doesn't exist as of now, and it's impossible to know all of what freewill decisions are going to be made.

This is my particular understanding.

Here are some verses about God coming to know:

---

حَسِبْتُمْ أَنْ تَدْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَعْلَمِ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ جَاهَدُوا مِنْكُمْ وَيَعْلَمَ الصَّابِرِينَ {142}
[Shakir 3:142] Do you think that you will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient.
 
وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ ۖ فَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْكَاذِبِينَ {3}
[Shakir 29:3] And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.
 
وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ {11}
[Shakir 29:11] And most certainly Allah will know those who believe and most certainly He will know the hypocrites.



وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ حَتَّىٰ نَعْلَمَ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَنَبْلُوَ أَخْبَارَكُمْ {31}
[Pickthal 47:31] And verily We shall try you till We know those of you who strive hard (for the cause of Allah) and the steadfast, and till We test your record.

---

That said, I haven't met anyone holding this view but me.

Mystic : this verse defies every word you said..

(Sura 57 Verse 22 )   No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah, is easy 

and another thing..judgement day is considered "the future". how come god knows so many information about it ?according to your faith, god doesn't know the future right ? because he didn't create it yet ??????

does ali know ?

(October 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm):)XD Wrote: So this asshole is trying to covert me to Islam. So I asked him if Allah loves his worshipers so much, how come muslims are able to suffer from pain and agony? His response was Allah was testing their faith and when they die they will be granted a paradise free from suffering in the afterlife -_-. How do I respond?

You should absolutely convert to Islam, and as quickly as possible. Once your initial conversion is complete, enroll at the most religiously radical madrassa you can find, study hard, become an imam...then destroy from within.

Mwa ha ha.

Boru

"No thanks. Please don't bring this up again."

"How about I respect your beliefs, and you respect mine?"

"If Allah wants to talk to me, he can do so directly."

"I don't care if Allah exists, I'm not looking for things to worship."

"If he's testing us, maybe it's a test of critical thinking skills?"

"Anything that requires human worship isn't very powerful anyway. Remind me why he needs your help?"

OP. Use wisely.

(October 30, 2015 at 11:56 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Anyway, if Allah is supposed to be omniscient, he already knows who has the most faith and has no need to test anyone. Why would he test them?

My explanation of this, is that the test is not actually a test from Allah's point of view - because He knows everything - but it is a test from our point of view since we do not know what Allah knows.

Based on that answer, I think that we are basically supposed to prove something to ourselves ... about ourselves. We can't "prove" anything to Allah because He knows everything. He is All-Knowing. This life is a test only in the sense that it is a test to demonstrate to our own selves what position we will earn in the afterlife and why, not to demonstrate to Allah.

Unlike the exams that we take in class where the teacher acquires some information about the students (i.e. based on their grades), Allah doesn't acquire any new information about us after our test is over because He already knows everything. So, the test that Allah speaks of is a fully self-referential test because the information or knowledge that is intended to be gained after completing the test is only for ourselves, not for Allah.

I'm going through a test only to prove something to myself about myself. I can't prove anything to Allah, although He is the one who is testing me.

(October 31, 2015 at 6:29 am)Rayaan Wrote: My explanation of this, is that the test is not actually a test from Allah's point of view - because He knows everything - but it is a test from our point of view since we do not know what Allah knows.

Based on that answer, I think that we are basically supposed to prove something to ourselves ... about ourselves. We can't "prove" anything to Allah because He knows everything. He is All-Knowing. This life is a test only in the sense that it is a test to demonstrate to our own selves what position we will earn in the afterlife and why, not to demonstrate to Allah.

Unlike the exams that we take in class where the teacher acquires some information about the students (i.e. based on their grades), Allah doesn't acquire any new information about us after our test is over because He already knows everything. So, the test that Allah speaks of is a fully self-referential test because the information or knowledge that is intended to be gained after completing the test is only for ourselves, not for Allah.

I'm going through a test only to prove something to myself about myself. I can't prove anything to Allah, although He is the one who is testing me.

Nope, read that 3 times but still don't get it. No wonder submitting to this shit causes folk to go crazy. Mental illness.

(October 31, 2015 at 4:21 am)AtlasS33 Wrote:

(October 30, 2015 at 10:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: God knows all things that are possible to know. He will come to know the patient and truthful per Quran, that is because future doesn't exist as of now, and it's impossible to know all of what freewill decisions are going to be made.

This is my particular understanding.

Here are some verses about God coming to know:

---

حَسِبْتُمْ أَنْ تَدْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَعْلَمِ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ جَاهَدُوا مِنْكُمْ وَيَعْلَمَ الصَّابِرِينَ {142}
[Shakir 3:142] Do you think that you will enter the garden while Allah has not yet known those who strive hard from among you, and (He has not) known the patient.
 
وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ ۖ فَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْكَاذِبِينَ {3}
[Shakir 29:3] And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.
 
وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ {11}
[Shakir 29:11] And most certainly Allah will know those who believe and most certainly He will know the hypocrites.



وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ حَتَّىٰ نَعْلَمَ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَنَبْلُوَ أَخْبَارَكُمْ {31}
[Pickthal 47:31] And verily We shall try you till We know those of you who strive hard (for the cause of Allah) and the steadfast, and till We test your record.

---

That said, I haven't met anyone holding this view but me.

Mystic : this verse defies every word you said..

(Sura 57 Verse 22 )   No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah, is easy 

and another thing..judgement day is considered "the future". how come god knows so many information about it ?according to your faith, god doesn't know the future right ? because he didn't create it yet ??????

does ali know ?

There is a verse shows God establishes and erases from the book what he wants, this to me seems there is a plan but it's not concrete or set it stone that Angels act upon: