No you don't you're a figment of my imagination.

(November 14, 2015 at 12:56 am)robvalue Wrote: What would you consider sufficient evidence that I exist?

Show up in person with multiple forms of ID.

OK, well I don't have the money to buy plane tickets to go swanning around the world, so I can't do that, sorry.

You didn't answer: do you doubt that I'm a human? Do you doubt that some human being is typing these words?

Do you guys ever consider how sad it is that one of the mainline, go-to arguments that christians use in defense of their faith is this insistence on petulant solipsism so they can ultimately lob a tu coque fallacy at those who dare disagree with them?

Wow, can you throw any more $5 words in there?

(November 19, 2015 at 2:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: OK, well I don't have the money to buy plane tickets to go swanning around the world, so I can't do that, sorry.

You didn't answer: do you doubt that I'm a human? Do you doubt that some human being is typing these words?

No, I don't doubt that some human being is typing the words. In my experience, words don't just appear on the screen by themselves. In my experience, universes don't come into existence by themselves, and life doesn't form from inert matter by itself. So, by arguing that your existence can be inferred from the words on the screen, you're not doing something that god hasn't also done, and much more impressively.

(November 19, 2015 at 2:39 pm)alpha male Wrote: Wow, can you throw any more $5 words in there?

Of course I can, but I wouldn't want to have to suffer through any more arbitrary, self-serving objections from you, just so that you can feel better about your own unjustified beliefs because them atheists done do it to!

Quote: No, I don't doubt that some human being is typing the words. In my experience, words don't just appear on the screen by themselves. In my experience, universes don't come into existence by themselves, and life doesn't form from inert matter by itself. So, by arguing that your existence can be inferred from the words on the screen, you're not doing something that god hasn't also done, and much more impressively.

Um, in your experience, life doesn't create life from nothing either, so by your own logic, your god is excluded from having done anything at all.

Also, in your experience, life doesn't exist eternally, nor does it exist outside of universes, nor does it exist supernaturally, etc etc. Every individual claim regarding your god is outside of your experience, so why are you ranking experience so highly, right up until the moment that your experiences begin to diverge from what you already believe?

Alpha: ok, so I have demonstrated that I exist after all. So why are you saying I need to be in person with ID? When I say "I", I mean the human writing these messages. I'm producing these in real time, in direct response to what you are saying.

What messages has god sent recently that come anywhere close to is level of existence I'm demonstrating? How has he interacted with someone in such a clear way, that I can examine? 2000 years ago is hardly current.

If you really believe being the main character in a story makes you real, then why don't you believe every main character in a story is real?

(November 19, 2015 at 3:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: Alpha: ok, so I have demonstrated that I exist after all.

And by that standard, so has god.

Quote:What messages has god sent recently that come anywhere close to is level of existence I'm demonstrating? How has he interacted with someone in such a clear way, that I can examine? 2000 years ago is hardly current.

So what? I believe Caesar Augustus existed despite the evidence being old. God also gave evidence of himself over centuries, which is something you won't be able to do.

Quote:If you really believe being the main character in a story makes you real, then why don't you believe every main character in a story is real?

If you believe words demonstrate your existence, why don't you believe that words demonstrate everyone else's existence?

If you don't see a difference between me producing messages right now in real time, in specific reply to things you are saying, and a story written in a book which never changes, then there's nothing much to discuss.

At the absolute best it demonstrates God did exist 2000 years ago, but says nothing about his continued existence. And by that standard, so did Bilbo Baggins.