(November 29, 2015 at 6:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Absolutely, Losty.

A question though. Do you think there is a reason why, for example, there are a lot more men who are pilots and engineers than woman who are those things, and a lot more women who are hairdressers and school teachers than men who are those things? Or is it purely because of society?

Now let me be perfectly clear on something: I do not think there is ANYTHING wrong with a man choosing to be a kindergarten teacher or with a woman choosing to be a bomber pilot. People can do what they want, and if that's what they're good at and what they want to do, go for it. Doesn't matter what you are.

But my point is perhaps there is an inherent reason why more women tend to be more interested in certain things and more men tend to be more interested in other things. Perhaps that reason is because, while there are exceptions, men and women have a certain difference to them that extends beyond just genitalia and physicality. I don't think there's anything wrong with that or that we need to try to deny this. It doesn't make one sex better than the other, just makes them different.

I am pretty sure a large part of it involves conditioning girls and boys differently. Girls are conditioned to be pretty and pleasant and passive, and men are conditioned to be strong and aggressive and smart.



Kids believe what you tell them. I am lucky enough to have had parents who made me believe I could do anything I wanted. I turned out to be a scientist, a male-dominated career. At work, men and women communicate differently. I have seen women admonished and punished professionally (and called things like "nutcracker") for being strong and opinionated, and men rewarded for being strong and opinionated (and being called things like "A strong leader"). It's a cultural thing to some degree.

I dunno, I think it'd be pretty insulting if we went up to a lady hairdresser and told her the only reason she thinks she likes doing that sort of thing is because society made her think so. 

I think at least in the US, pilots are pilots usually because they want to be, because they genuinely like it. And hairdressers are what they are because of the same reason. Not because of "society", at least not anymore.

(November 29, 2015 at 7:23 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dunno, I think it'd be pretty insulting if we went up to a lady hairdresser and told her the only reason she thinks she likes doing that sort of thing is because society made her think so. 

I think at least in the US, pilots are pilots usually because they want to be, because they genuinely like it. And hairdressers are what they are because of the same reason. Not because of "society", at least not anymore.

You have to see the fallacies in this: first, no one said that the hairdresser's only reason for enjoying it is because of society; second, there is nothing saying that being a pilot is the only thing someone of that profession would enjoy doing.

(November 29, 2015 at 7:35 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(November 29, 2015 at 7:23 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dunno, I think it'd be pretty insulting if we went up to a lady hairdresser and told her the only reason she thinks she likes doing that sort of thing is because society made her think so. 

I think at least in the US, pilots are pilots usually because they want to be, because they genuinely like it. And hairdressers are what they are because of the same reason. Not because of "society", at least not anymore.

You have to see the fallacies in this: first, no one said that the hairdresser's only reason for enjoying it is because of society; second, there is nothing saying that being a pilot is the only thing someone of that profession would enjoy doing.

You're correct. I should have said "a large part of the reason" rather than "the only reason," since I was responding to Mermaid.  

I'm not sure what you mean in your second point though? I didn't say anything about it being the only thing they would enjoy.

(November 29, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 29, 2015 at 7:35 pm)The_Empress Wrote: You have to see the fallacies in this: first, no one said that the hairdresser's only reason for enjoying it is because of society; second, there is nothing saying that being a pilot is the only thing someone of that profession would enjoy doing.

You're correct. I should have said "a large part of the reason" rather than "the only reason," since I was responding to Mermaid. 

But that still isn't right; who says society has to be any part of the reason they *enjoy* what they do? I imagine most people who enjoy what they do feel that way despite what society pushes them into. 

Quote:I'm not sure what you mean in your second point though? I didn't say anything about it being the only thing they would enjoy.

My point is on the tips of my fingers, but I'm really stoned and I forgot... if I remember what I was trying to say, I'll share. Sorry

(I always get mad at myself for not cleaning my bowl until I realize I've got some really nice resin hits happening in there. Yay for me having a dirty pipe!)

(November 29, 2015 at 7:23 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dunno, I think it'd be pretty insulting if we went up to a lady hairdresser and told her the only reason she thinks she likes doing that sort of thing is because society made her think so. 

I think at least in the US, pilots are pilots usually because they want to be, because they genuinely like it. And hairdressers are what they are because of the same reason. Not because of "society", at least not anymore.

It's not a conscious thing. It's insidious.

(November 29, 2015 at 7:56 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(November 29, 2015 at 7:40 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: You're correct. I should have said "a large part of the reason" rather than "the only reason," since I was responding to Mermaid. 

But that still isn't right; who says society has to be any part of the reason they *enjoy* what they do? I imagine most people who enjoy what they do feel that way despite what society pushes them into. 

I think we might not be on the same ship here.

The claim was made that there was 0 difference between men and women, besides just the physical. I then brought up the example that there are certain vocations that are very male dominated and others that are very female dominated because there are certain things that are more often enjoyed by men than by women (obviously there are exceptions), and vice versa... because men and women have differences that extend beyond the physical. Mermaid said that a large part of this is due to society. That's when I made my comment about the hairdresser.

(November 27, 2015 at 9:39 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: If you keep your girlfriend happy and well-fucked, she won't cheat on you and you won't have to publicly shame them on youtube.

Well being sexually unsatisfied isn't a justification to cheat, provided you are in a "traditional" monogamous relationship and didn't agree to have multiple partners. Using the same logic, if my girlfriend refuses to satisfy all my fetishes then I can visit a hooker and cheat on her, right? 

Cheating impulses are probably influenced by a lack of sexual satisfcation, as well as lack of emotional attachment, but that doesn't mean cheating is ok.

(November 29, 2015 at 8:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 29, 2015 at 7:56 pm)The_Empress Wrote: But that still isn't right; who says society has to be any part of the reason they *enjoy* what they do? I imagine most people who enjoy what they do feel that way despite what society pushes them into. 

I think we might not be on the same ship here.

The claim was made that there was 0 difference between men and women, besides just the physical. I then brought up the example that there are certain vocations that are very male dominated and others that are very female dominated because there are certain things that are more often enjoyed by men than by women (obviously there are exceptions), and vice versa... because men and women have differences that extend beyond the physical. Mermaid said that a large part of this is due to society. That's when I made my comment about the hairdresser.

That's the point: enjoyment has very little to do with why certain vocations are dominated by certain genders.

(November 29, 2015 at 8:31 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(November 29, 2015 at 8:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think we might not be on the same ship here.

The claim was made that there was 0 difference between men and women, besides just the physical. I then brought up the example that there are certain vocations that are very male dominated and others that are very female dominated because there are certain things that are more often enjoyed by men than by women (obviously there are exceptions), and vice versa... because men and women have differences that extend beyond the physical. Mermaid said that a large part of this is due to society. That's when I made my comment about the hairdresser.

That's the point: enjoyment has very little to do with why certain vocations are dominated by certain genders.

If we're talking about garbage men and cashiers, sure, but I don't think that applies to the examples I gave. I think most Americans who are pilots and hairdressers are those things because they have an interest in the field... and they enjoy that type of stuff.