(December 4, 2015 at 3:16 am)Ludwig Wrote: That headline just reeks of tabloid journalism.

Except tabloids are usually full of half-truths and outright lies. This headline couldn't be more true.

Could Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Lindsey Graham, or Paul Ryan pass even the gentlest, easiest, fluffiest test of religious fealty and piety ?

Why doesn't their pandering PO the christers that actually are sincere ??

Of course, people have the right to say whatever they want, but I do think it's rude to tell people to "get off their asses and do something instead of praying." This assumes that just because someone prays it means they don't do anything else or are not willing to do anything else. It's a false dichotomy. You can pray, and you can do other things, too. You can even do them at the same time.

I've seen the phrase "f*ck your prayers" be thrown around a bit the past 2 days. A lot of the people who were trapped in that building while the shooting was going on, started calling family members and friends, asking for prayers because they thought they were going to die. Imagine if that phrase had been muttered to them? "F*ck your prayers."

Personally I don't care if you're Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, or whatever. If you pray for me during a difficult time, I'll be thankful that you care enough to be thinking about me.

Whether or not a politician is being genuine or political when *they* talk about praying for someone, though, is another matter. But generally speaking I don't see any problem at all with a person keeping another in their thoughts and prayers.

There's no need to be rude about it, that I agree with. But I don't think saying "prayers are not enough" is offensive at all. I think every theist I know personally would agree that most times prayers are not enough. A lot of times with big things, people think praying is all they can do and it's not. There are small things everyone can do to help.

(December 4, 2015 at 3:16 am)Ludwig Wrote: That headline just reeks of tabloid journalism.

It is left to Tabloid journalism to offer the closest approximation of words of reason in our public discourse.  That is what keeps us free and makes America great.

(December 4, 2015 at 2:34 am)Aroura Wrote: So after the shooting at a college in October here in Oregon, President Obama said “Our thoughts and prayers are not enough.”.  Of course I've seen that sentiment a thousand times on this forum or with other atheists on twitter or facebook, but the Christian President saying it seems to have loosed the tongues of more people.

I think many of you have seen the NY Daily News front page by now.



Of course this has angered a lot of people (who pray).  They are calling it "prayer shaming", latching onto the whole "Stop shaming us" movement that we see with "fat shaming", "victim shaming", "gay shaming", etc. 

Personally, I wold never tell an average, private citizen that their prayers are worthless. Not my mom or a friend, or even a stranger.  

However, I do think it IS a useless platitude used in a political and not meaningful way when offered nearly verbatim from a string of politicians who continue to do everything in their power to keep people stupid, dogmatic, fearful, poor, and utterly oppressed with their moronic ideals on women's health, social justice, the vast disparity between the 1% and the rest of us, etc.  They don't even MEAN it, so I think they should be called out and this little crappy newspaper deserves some applause for having the guts to say such an unpopular, but true, thing.

So what do you think?  Is it ok to tell people to get off their asses and do something instead of praying?  Or are we "shaming" people who are really just trying to offer their condolences?  Do you tell friends or family how you feel....and how do you feel about it?  Is "prayer shaming" even a thing, or are Christians again trying to play the "you are oppressing us by saying mean things!" card?

Being a victim is a fashionable thing now from what I can gather so I suppose people who pray just want to join in on it.

(December 4, 2015 at 10:59 am)Losty Wrote: There's no need to be rude about it, that I agree with. But I don't think saying "prayers are not enough" is offensive at all. I think every theist I know personally would agree that most times prayers are not enough. A lot of times with big things, people think praying is all they can do and it's not. There are small things everyone can do to help.

Very true. And like you said, I don't think it's extremely common for Christians to think all they need to do is pray, and nothing more. That's not really the general rule within Christianity, to just pray and not do anything else.  

1. Feed the hungry.
   
2. Give drink to the thirsty.
   
3. Clothe the naked.
   
4. Shelter the Homeless
   
5. Visit the sick.
   
6. Visit the imprisoned
   
7. Bury the dead.
   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_of_mercy

Man I love that newspaper cover though.

Its shaming people who think their *thoughts* actually have a physical impact on the world and they don't need to do anything more.
If you legitimately want to help someone; help someone.

People who demonstrably have the power to help but basically say "I've thought about it. That makes me a good person." should be openly mocked. This is not a sincere response to a genuine problem.