(December 23, 2015 at 11:36 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Fucking god.........

Ah I remember waking up after a rough evening out. Those guys used to play their little pranks.

You seem to be a serious person...
Let's look at this seriously (as if no one else has done exactly that....)

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: Hello, 

Greetings to you brothers and sisters in humanity,

Greetings!

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: I would like to refute Richard Dawkins argument " If God created man, then who created God? "

I wouldn't say that is Richard Dawkins argument... He must have borrowed it from someone else, I don't know who.
But it's just taking the argument of the creator god that extra step.

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: The answer to this question is very simple, and I would like to discuss it in detail:

1. The Creator is called The Creator, so how can the Creator have a creator if he is The Creator?

This is a bit silly. As many people have pointed out right on the first few pages...
The Architect is called The Architect, so how can the Architect have an architect if he is The Architect?
The Engineer is called The Engineer, so how can the Engineer have an engineer if he is The Engineer?

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 2. The question can be turned around, which will allow me to ask: " If the universe created man, then who created the universe? "

"Who"?
As far as I'm aware, only people could be the answer to such a question... Since people are ruled out, because we're assuming no people existed before the "Universe created man", then that question makes no sense.
- If the Earth created the Alps, then which mountain created the Earth?

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 3. Only do things in our galaxy and universe and space-time, require a creator. God is obviously out of space and time, and the galaxy and universe, in another dimension, in which we do not understand.

How would you know about that?
Nothing we do is ever an act of creation, as the one you wish to impart upon this god character.
What people usually mean when they say they create something is merely a combination of different pre-existing elements to acquire a new shape.
How would you know that these elements can't have come from some source, very unlike a god? Maybe that source is working at many different out-of-this-universe locations, thus providing many Universes.... You can't know. You shouldn't posit any stock on any explanation, until it has been tested. That is how intellectual honesty works.

Here, you also leap from "The Creator" to "God", as if that is not a huge leap in reasoning.Automatically, you are putting god out of space and time, whatever that may mean. I can't fathom what "out of space" means. Is space like a box and god is out of that box? LOL! Space is everywhere where "where" is meaningful... space is everywhere where "in" and "out" are meaningful. Space-time is not a box.
Another dimension which we do not understand is just another way of saying: I made this up, but it doesn't make much sense.... but I want it to be real.

Darth Vader, also exists in another dimension...

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 4. This is like saying that an explanation requires an explanation, which would lose you in an infinite regress, which is clearly contradictory to the bases and fundamentals of science.

So, it's better not to invent an explanation, but to keep researching until the actual real explanation is found.
Why would we rely on explanations invented thousands of years ago, by scientifically ignorant pre-written language humans?

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 5. Antony Flew in his book states:

Now, clearly theists and atheist can agree on one thing: if anything at all exists, there must be something preceding it that always existed. How did this eternally existing reality come to be? The answer is that it never came to be. It always existed. Take your pick: God or universe. Something always existed

Antony Flew was another ignorant. One with little imagination at that...
There are far more options than "god or the universe". Some no human has ever even thought of.

I can come up with a whole class of godlings who create Universes in their high-school-equivalent years, as practice for bigger things. One of them would have created our Universe... with all the flaws we see in it... I wouldn't give him more than a C.
These godlings would be born out of other gods and get bored out of their minds, if not for the constant creation of Universes and continuous tinkering with them.
And they die!

(December 24, 2015 at 8:26 am)pocaracas Wrote: How would you know that these elements can't have come from some source, very unlike a god?

The Standard Model gives a good account of how all the elements came to be. Our new friend should pay close attention to the word how. In addition to the severe lack of predictive capability, ID is silent when it comes to the how.

ID can in no way be considered science; it's literalism dressed up in an effort to pass it off as science. Most Christians don't even accept it. On that note, ID supporters like this guy and AAA would spend their time better convincing the rest of Christiandom, they at least already accept the central premise.

OP, again I ask, are you going to respond to rebuttals or shit and run? If the latter, then you'll get no quarter from anybody.

Hey Mo, how's that fantasy delusion holding up?

(December 24, 2015 at 5:50 am)robvalue Wrote: You can't prove I don't have wings.

You can't prove I do have wings.

(December 24, 2015 at 9:35 am)Cato Wrote:

(December 24, 2015 at 8:26 am)pocaracas Wrote: How would you know that these elements can't have come from some source, very unlike a god?

The Standard Model gives a good account of how all the elements came to be. Our new friend should pay close attention to the word how. In addition to the severe lack of predictive capability, ID is silent when it comes to the how.

ID can in no way be considered science; it's literalism dressed up in an effort to pass it off as science. Most Christians don't even accept it. On that note, ID supporters like this guy and AAA would spend their time better convincing the rest of Christiandom, they at least already accept the central premise.

Big Bang nucleosynthesis is pretty compelling. There is no alternative idea why the lightest elements should come in these specific and extremely different abundances, and big bang cosmology predicts it. And the production of heavier elements via fusion is an old hat.

Too complicated/impressive, therefor magic.

That's what this kind of thing comes down to, right?

(December 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: 3. Only do things in our galaxy and universe and space-time, require a creator. God is obviously out of space and time, and the galaxy and universe, in another dimension, in which we do not understand.

This is nothing more than a game of make believe: you require an exception to the rules, so you just make one up. It's kids stuff.

"I incinerate you with my plasma gun!"
"I avoid your plasma gun behind my invisible and impenetrable shield!"
"My plasma gun shoots around corners so it avoids your shield!"
"I'm wearing an antiplasma suit which is also invisible!"
"...

It's just make believe. It's stupid.

(December 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm)Mohammed - Muslim and Proud Wrote: As a muslim, I am not allowed to use profanity because Islam teaches me to respect people, regardless of their beliefs and views. Please, I would like it if you respect me as a human, and not use profanity. You are not a Muslim, and you do not have a degree on Islam, you speak on a few researches you have done through the internet. I advise you to talk to Muslim Scholars who have a masters in Islam. I advise you to watch Reza Aslan, Ahmed Deedat, Maajid Nawaz and etc.

You won't be treated with respect here.

The people here are mostly very emotional, bearing irrational anger towards religion.

They have no good reasons for their beliefs or lack thereof.

But they have plenty of anger and hate. They blame God and religion for everything, from bad weather to ingrown toenails. And then say God doesn't exist. And then they say they are agnostic atheists who lack belief.

You'll love it here. It's the intellectual equivalent of wrestling with pigs.