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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 5:34 am
(January 10, 2016 at 3:58 am)bennyboy Wrote: Nor, without making philosophical assumptions unsupportable by scientific observation, can you even establish whether ANY physical system, neuronal or otherwise, human or otherwise, actually has the subjective awareness of experiences and ideas we call mind.
I'm not even sure that, without making such assumptions, that one can establish the *existence* of, well, pretty much anything but one's own mind. The inescapable conclusion of *not* accepting certain assumptions is solipsism. Wheeeeee! Lions and tigers and brains in vats, oh my!
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 8:12 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 8:19 am by bennyboy.)
(January 10, 2016 at 5:34 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (January 10, 2016 at 3:58 am)bennyboy Wrote: Nor, without making philosophical assumptions unsupportable by scientific observation, can you even establish whether ANY physical system, neuronal or otherwise, human or otherwise, actually has the subjective awareness of experiences and ideas we call mind.
I'm not even sure that, without making such assumptions, that one can establish the *existence* of, well, pretty much anything but one's own mind. The inescapable conclusion of *not* accepting certain assumptions is solipsism. Wheeeeee! Lions and tigers and brains in vats, oh my!
That's right. Here's the hard-core science process:
1) make a series of assumptions on the grounds that they're "pragmatic" or that there's nothing better;
2) don't call any of it philosophy, even though it is exactly that;
3) use the word "yet" a lot when asked about question for which science clearly has no answers
4) smugly proclaim that philosophy is dead, replaced by Science
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 8:22 am
(January 10, 2016 at 8:12 am)bennyboy Wrote: (January 10, 2016 at 5:34 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I'm not even sure that, without making such assumptions, that one can establish the *existence* of, well, pretty much anything but one's own mind. The inescapable conclusion of *not* accepting certain assumptions is solipsism. Wheeeeee! Lions and tigers and brains in vats, oh my!
That's right. Here's the hard-core science process:
1) make a series of assumptions on the grounds that they're "pragmatic" or that there's nothing better;
2) don't call any of it philosophy, even though it is exactly that;
3) treat philosophy as a diametric opposite to science, and then argue which one is better;
4) profit
LOL, yeah.
Science may in fact be the gold standard with respect to the objective, but that is not all that we are made of.
The fact of the matter is that science was BORN of philosophy.
This is reflected in something that I think not everyone realizes. The most advance science degree is a Ph.D. While it's true that this could in fact be an acronym for "Piled Higher and Deeper" the fact of the matter is that it means Doctorate of Philosophy, and that fact is not coincidental.
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 8:23 am
(January 10, 2016 at 8:12 am)bennyboy Wrote: 1) make a series of assumptions on the grounds that they're "pragmatic" or that there's nothing better;
2) don't call any of it philosophy, even though it is exactly that;
3) use the word "yet" a lot when asked about question for which science clearly has no answers
4) smugly proclaim that philosophy is dead, replaced by Science
Incidentally, your original post was more correct. There needs to be a "X) Profit???" in there someplace.
Turn in your geek card, sir.
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 8:46 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 8:47 am by Edwardo Piet.)
Karl Popper, excellent philosopher of science. Philosophy is epic, science is epicer, but philosophy is epic.
David Hume, excellent philosopher.
Immanuel Kant, excellent philosopher.
Science itself grew out of "natural philosophy".
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 9:20 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2016 at 10:04 am by The Grand Nudger.)
People keep going apeshit on this one. It's not exactly a revolutionary notion. Anyone here advocating for pure reason? Anybody think they'll learn something they don't already know, by thoughtful introspection? OFC not. We -just- went through this, in an identical thread, with identical examples discussed...and in each case what you will find following that sensational tagline....is criticism of pure reason, of philosophy in a vacuum.
Science generates sound propositions. This was grossly missing from philosophy prior to it's existence, and without sound propositions..........philosophy is dead.
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 11:15 am
(January 10, 2016 at 8:22 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (January 10, 2016 at 8:12 am)bennyboy Wrote: That's right. Here's the hard-core science process:
1) make a series of assumptions on the grounds that they're "pragmatic" or that there's nothing better;
2) don't call any of it philosophy, even though it is exactly that;
3) treat philosophy as a diametric opposite to science, and then argue which one is better;
4) profit
LOL, yeah.
Science may in fact be the gold standard with respect to the objective, but that is not all that we are made of.
The fact of the matter is that science was BORN of philosophy.
This is reflected in something that I think not everyone realizes. The most advance science degree is a Ph.D. While it's true that this could in fact be an acronym for "Piled Higher and Deeper" the fact of the matter is that it means Doctorate of Philosophy, and that fact is not coincidental.
I don't have one technically. Unlike my friends in mathematics, I don't have a Dr. phil, but a Dr. rer. nat.
A doctorate about the things in nature 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 3:20 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 11:15 am)Quantum Wrote: (January 10, 2016 at 8:22 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: LOL, yeah.
Science may in fact be the gold standard with respect to the objective, but that is not all that we are made of.
The fact of the matter is that science was BORN of philosophy.
This is reflected in something that I think not everyone realizes. The most advance science degree is a Ph.D. While it's true that this could in fact be an acronym for "Piled Higher and Deeper" the fact of the matter is that it means Doctorate of Philosophy, and that fact is not coincidental.
I don't have one technically. Unlike my friends in mathematics, I don't have a Dr. phil, but a Dr. rer. nat.
A doctorate about the things in nature
I wasn't aware that was a thing. My father has a Ph.D in biology. Perhaps it's a matter of where you get the degree? Dunno.
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 3:32 pm
On another forum, someone was speaking about how math is becoming a philosophy. Perhaps, philosophy isn't dead at all, it's just being redefined?
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RE: Is philosophy dead?
January 10, 2016 at 7:17 pm
(January 10, 2016 at 3:32 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: On another forum, someone was speaking about how math is becoming a philosophy. Perhaps, philosophy isn't dead at all, it's just being redefined?
Philosophy isn't a view. It's a family name-- an umbrella-- for all schools of creative or critical thought. Obviously, focus changes greatly as different philosophical ideas come in vogue. But math has always been connected to philosophy, right from the start.
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