(February 20, 2016 at 2:54 am)robvalue Wrote: That is incredibly sad

I hate my parents, the are shits, but even they would respond to me better than that.

I try to think I have it lucky, but there is a kid in our neighborhood whos parents make him pay for gas whenever they take him somewhere. He does chores everyday and he gets grounded for making sarcastic comments with his sister a lot.

I just can't though, he is subject to physical ailment, I am subject to mental. I have it easier physically, but he has it easier mentally, it could be an equal field but I don't know how truly bad it is for him.

(February 20, 2016 at 12:25 am)GeneralDog Wrote: With the debates I have had with my mom, she says "You have to seek the truth." under the presumption that the bible is the ultimate truth, I am constantly ganged up on by my family and they call my lack of any faith for a god stupid. My brother, dad, other brother(who is a pantheist and not a christian), and mom always quad team me and I get to speak and then they all 4 just bother me. If I say I do not want to debate I end up getting dragged into it/seen as vulnerable and I get harassed more.

Hey, I'm 48 and I have 5 kiddos of my own!  First off, be a kid!!!  You only live once, and the teenage years will fly-by and be gone before you know it!  And, so, slow down, and try, as difficult as it may, to enjoy life!  Enjoy school, enjoy friends, enjoy TV, games, books, and videos.  As for your atheist views, it's great that you have embraced at least a rationalist POV, but, then again, others will, also, in due time.  That's the direction that the World is moving to (one of increasing secularism), and the World will continue to move in that direction, with or without you.  Even though Mom & Dad are your parents, I would suggest to you that you stop "debating" with them; even as minor, you do have some rights, which various courts have recognized, and no one, even at your age, can compel you to believe and/or profess something that you do not believe in.  Just don't have a little "chip on your shoulder" about it, though, and try to use atheism as some sort of "adolescent rebellion".  Be truthful and forthright with your parents and your therapists, and say, "Hey, I don't believe in this stuff; I think that it is bullshit, and now, can we move on, please?"  It's okay to "agree to disagree" as a teenager with one's parents; as long as school rules and laws are not being broken, then it's your life, buddy, and no one else's!

(February 20, 2016 at 3:02 am)GeneralDog Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 2:54 am)robvalue Wrote: That is incredibly sad

I hate my parents, the are shits, but even they would respond to me better than that.

I try to think I have it lucky, but there is a kid in our neighborhood whos parents make him pay for gas whenever they take him somewhere. He does chores everyday and he gets grounded for making sarcastic comments with his sister a lot.

I just can't though, he is subject to physical ailment, I am subject to mental. I have it easier physically, but he has it easier mentally, it could be an equal field but I don't know how truly bad it is for him.

Be skeptical of these accounts.  My oldest son (17) embellishes stuff all the time!

It sounds to me more like it's Gdog's family bringing the "debate" to him when he'd rather be left alone. I agree, not entering into any unecessary discussions about it can be a good idea.

(February 20, 2016 at 10:44 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 12:25 am)GeneralDog Wrote: With the debates I have had with my mom, she says "You have to seek the truth." under the presumption that the bible is the ultimate truth, I am constantly ganged up on by my family and they call my lack of any faith for a god stupid. My brother, dad, other brother(who is a pantheist and not a christian), and mom always quad team me and I get to speak and then they all 4 just bother me. If I say I do not want to debate I end up getting dragged into it/seen as vulnerable and I get harassed more.

Hey, I'm 48 and I have 5 kiddos of my own!  First off, be a kid!!!  You only live once, and the teenage years will fly-by and be gone before you know it!  And, so, slow down, and try, as difficult as it may, to enjoy life!  Enjoy school, enjoy friends, enjoy TV, games, books, and videos.  As for your atheist views, it's great that you have embraced at least a rationalist POV, but, then again, others will, also, in due time.  That's the direction that the World is moving to (one of increasing secularism), and the World will continue to move in that direction, with or without you.  Even though Mom & Dad are your parents, I would suggest to you that you stop "debating" with them; even as minor, you do have some rights, which various courts have recognized, and no one, even at your age, can compel you to believe and/or profess something that you do not believe in.  Just don't have a little "chip on your shoulder" about it, though, and try to use atheism as some sort of "adolescent rebellion".  Be truthful and forthright with your parents and your therapists, and say, "Hey, I don't believe in this stuff; I think that it is bullshit, and now, can we move on, please?"  It's okay to "agree to disagree" as a teenager with one's parents; as long as school rules and laws are not being broken, then it's your life, buddy, and no one else's!

Have to agree. The teen age years are hard, and although they are all you know, once you have lived another decade you will look back on them as being fairly easy. Once you get out into the real world, have to get a job to pay your rent, and feed yourself, buy a car and have insurance, you will realize wisdom is going through the experiences that made you strong. I feel bad that you are struggling, but it's actually more common than you might think. Everyone goes through the awkward years, but eventually you get older and wiser. For now, just have fun, and make the best of it. Like Jehanne said, it will be over before you know it. Even today I miss sometimes when the most I had to worry about was doing my homework, or doing chores around the house. Sometimes I wish I was a kid again and have my parents pay for everything so I could have the summers off to do whatever I want.

Maybe what you need is something to take you mind off things for a while. Honestly why don't you start learning coding, or programming? There are a lot of online training academies that can teach you how to program, and it's one of the best careers to get into. You being so young, you could learn so much, and be the next Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerburg. I'm getting into it myself, mainly to automate tasks. You will be highly valuable, and amaze your friends and family with what you can do.

https://www.codecademy.com/

Just don't give up on yourself. You have huge potential, and will do great things, but it will take time to get through the hard times. I've been there myself. Already posted this song, but you might need it now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmpU_73CXxU

(February 8, 2016 at 6:55 pm)GeneralDog Wrote: I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

---

(February 8, 2016 at 6:55 pm)GeneralDog Wrote: I came here a few days ago saying I had converted from Christian to Atheist, but was doubting a lot. I also mentioned I had OCD which may be contributing to the problem.


Heres an update.
1) The doubt is gone, but I still get this nagging feeling. My brain was condition to believe in god, and me trying to condition me otherwise is very difficult.

2) I started listening to the logical side of my brain. My OCD has been less 'triggersome' lately and I feel a lot better. I was able to dismiss thoughts that disturbed me so. Like "god's real, satan has got you". Instead of listening to my emotions, I listened to the logic side of my brain saying "There is no evidence for god. Theres evidence for evolution. Carbon Dating, Fossils, among other things. 2 stories of the bible had been proven false to me (Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve) so the rest will follow."

Still, this nagging feeling. Whenever there is a coincidence, like lately I've been seeing god being mentioned more "gods trying to help you". I would say "It's psychological. gods not 'appearing' more, I'm just noticing it more due to my stuggle." The nagging feeling goes away for a minute and then comes back.

My brain is still using indoctrination. My parents are wondering if I am an atheist, I can tell. I am scared they will convert me. My brother converted to atheism a bit ago and now they converted him back. He now says "I have zero doubt about god.". I now say "I am just as sure that god isn't any more real than fairies and santa."

I can combat my old personal expirence with god though. I was listening to christian music in 7th grade and I got this feeling of motivation and happiness. Now I say "People have a personal relationship with buddha and allah, if you believe in something, you will get motivated by it. Christian songs are designed to be motivational in nature also, with violins and upbeat, high, catchy tunes. I still get that nagging feeling tho.

Wat Do?

Also, I have always believed in things without much evidence. I always believe first ask later sadly. Now I am trying to do away with that. I have been conditioning myself to ask "Prove it" whenever someone presents something to me. I am very superstitious. I would wear special clothes for football games and wear hats for basketball. And as I said. I have a hard time acknowledging something as a coincidence. I keep feeling as if it were a "wink" from god.

(February 20, 2016 at 10:46 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 3:02 am)GeneralDog Wrote: I try to think I have it lucky, but there is a kid in our neighborhood whos parents make him pay for gas whenever they take him somewhere. He does chores everyday and he gets grounded for making sarcastic comments with his sister a lot.

I just can't though, he is subject to physical ailment, I am subject to mental. I have it easier physically, but he has it easier mentally, it could be an equal field but I don't know how truly bad it is for him.

Be skeptical of these accounts.  My oldest son (17) embellishes stuff all the time!

Ive seen it happen. His sister parked too far from the curb and he said "park a little further, we cant fit an 18 wheeler yet." And he got grounded. His sister said he didnt do anything before this so its not like it was a previous thing he did.

(February 20, 2016 at 6:20 pm)GeneralDog Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 10:46 am)Jehanne Wrote: Be skeptical of these accounts.  My oldest son (17) embellishes stuff all the time!

Ive seen it happen. His sister parked too far from the curb and he said "park a little further, we cant fit an 18 wheeler yet." And he got grounded. His sister said he didnt do anything before this so its not like it was a previous thing he did.

Yeah, what a bummer; well, hopefully, someday he and his parents will learn to forgive each other.  I'm estranged from my mom and my dad is dead.  In any case, such a trite comment hardly is deserving (from the prospective of this parent, at least) of discipline, perhaps a, "Hey, can't you be more kind?" or "What useful purpose did that comment serve?" response; at least, that's what I would do.  I knew another parent whose family has since left the neighborhood who grounded his kindergartner for an entire month because she got home later than she was supposed to (about an hour), even though it was daylight out and she was a short distance from her home to begin with and was supervised by another family at all times.  But, stuff like that happens!

Mom made me go to church today. She texted my preacher and told him i was an atheist and he made some lesson about the reality of scripture. I was skeptical, he made lots of claims and his evidence was eyewitnesses. I thought about how witnesses on 9/11 said they saw no planes and It got rid of that doubt. They talked to me in the car about why i dont believe in prayer and they think im running away from god because i feel guilty of my sins. They are saying i will go to hell but fail to prove hells existance.

Overall its a good day, i can already tell i will never be able to get out of church. They wont let me leave

(February 20, 2016 at 2:52 am)GeneralDog Wrote:

(February 20, 2016 at 2:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Have you considered telling your mum just how damaging it is to you to keep pressuring you about religion? How she is making your OCD worse and making you unhappy?

Maybe tell her that if she cares about you, she should support you and help you get better, instead of worrying about what your religious beliefs are.

Seeking the truth is exactly what any sceptic does, anyway. You are seeking the truth. What your mum really means is just believe all her garbage and turn your brain off.

Not really, she would just see that as me being vulnerable and probably laugh it off. As I said, mental illness is not taken seriously.

I can relate, General Dog.