He's got some work to do before he's even up to our level. That's why we don't worship him.

(February 21, 2016 at 10:11 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 21, 2016 at 9:46 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Who pays the penalty when God succumbs to our temptations?

God doesn't succumb to our temptations.  In reality God kills us all.  We all die; and that's according to his will.  Dying in itself isn't evil, but it does come as a result of our sins.  It is evil, though, for us to disobey God's will and to commit murder.  Of course, if we truly loved our neighbors as Jesus told us to do, we wouldn't commit murder.

[quote=”Numbers 31:14-18” Moses was angry at the Generals and Captains of the army and asked: Why have you kept all these women alive? Now, kill every male-child as well as every woman who has had sex with a man. But, the young girls who have not had sex with a man, you may keep alive for yourselves.
[/quote]
They disobeyed god’s commandment to kill women and boys. How wicked of them. And Yahweh is so gracious that he didn’t require them to martyrdom to get their 7 virgins. Don’t you just love this god?

If it's evil to disobey god, then I'll just have to be evil.

(February 21, 2016 at 10:13 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 21, 2016 at 10:07 pm)Chad32 Wrote: You think it's good for an innocent person to die in place of the guilty? That seems like one of the biggest breaches of justice I can think of.

Seems that way to you, but if were talking God here, he created our world, not you.

And that's the bottom line. God doesn't do things out of love or justice. he does things because he can. Might makes right. So who the fuck are we to question the all mighty?

(February 22, 2016 at 1:23 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 22, 2016 at 7:48 am)robvalue Wrote: It can be noble, and an actual sacrifice, for a human to give their life to save others. This is because it may be the only way of doing so in a particular situation; the only price that can be paid.

But we're always bombarded with tales of how powerful God is and how he can do anything. That means he can do it any way he wants, too. So if his "plan" involves a human sacrifice, that is what he chose. It wasn't the only price.

This is why analogies with humans always fail. The fact that some theists are so ready to draw parallels though indicate what category they really put God in.

So you don't agree with way God does things.  If God is God, he has better insight than we do.  We don't believe in a God who thinks at our level, but rather is superior to us.  Otherwise, as you would say, "What's the use?"

So why make an analogy as if he acts like a human?

(February 21, 2016 at 10:20 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 21, 2016 at 10:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Hence why I'm not a christian anymore. problems like this.

If you believe in the God of christianity there is no problem with this.  The question concerns why God tempts, so the OP is presuming the existence of God.

Yes, we are well aware that believing in the god of Christianity means not having a problem with a god who commands genocide, rape, slavery, injusticey, fiat credulity of the most asinine ideas that ever wasted good paper. But it helps to be reminded, so thanks.

So if I ask why the fish warned the kids that their parents would be upset if they came home and found the cat in the hat, am I presuming the existence of talking fish?


Another straw man bites the dust.

(February 21, 2016 at 9:36 pm)Lek Wrote:

(February 21, 2016 at 9:26 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Seems "God" isn't too smart, then.

Believers claim he wants us to have a relationship with him, yet he goes pretty far out of his way to make sure his word is about as far from being reliable as possible. 

He inspires his followers to wait at least 70 years, or more, to write down his word, in dead languages, sure to be susceptible to: misinterpretation, edited, have passages added, copy errors made, entire texts left out, etc.

So, not only are there thousands of Christian sects, many with major doctrinal differences (caused by these different interpretations), but the texts actually seem to look (to those of us from the outside of the belief system) very much like other ancient texts, now considered mythology.  

Seems pretty short sighted of your god.

Seems that way, but it's worked rather well over time.

How do you figure?

Thousands of Christian sects, many involved in wars throughout history. All over competing interpretations of  texts supposedly provided by a god, that should have known of a better method to transmit his message.

The majority of humanity is not currently, and have not been Christian throughout history. Again, shouldn't this deity have been able to figure out a better method of transmitting his message? A method that would have been able to convince almost everyone on the planet?

I know I could have come up with a better method, and you could have too.

So instead, according to many Christian sects, we have a system, where the vast majority of all humanity that has ever existed, is going to be punished for eternity (or annihilated, according to others) , all because this deity had a poor method of communicating. 

Is that your idea of "working out rather well"? 

I guess since you have discovered the "truth", it has worked out rather well, for you. Not so much for those of us (the vast majority of humanity) that are destined for eternal punishment. 

Any being that created this system, does not deserve to be worshiped, even if it does actually exist.

(February 5, 2016 at 7:43 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: Why does Jesus tell us to pray for god not to do something he doesn’t do anyway?

You can stop right there. There's another underlyig fallacy in there. God, apart from the dogma of Jesus being god too, is called omniscent. So why would he feel the need to tempt when he already knows the outcome? For a cruel joke maybe. But that's the extent of it.

God being "wise" and "knowing how to do things best" is just ridiculous too.

He set the rules! If there are any obstacles that need being wise to deal with, he made them himself.

You can make up whatever story you want, all I ask is that it's internally consistent. But I don't even get that, generally.

Where are all these arbitrary problems and restrictions coming from all the time to excuse him behaving like an asshole?

(February 22, 2016 at 2:23 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: [quote='Lek' pid='1209922' dateline='1456107064']

God doesn't succumb to our temptations.  In reality God kills us all.  We all die; and that's according to his will.  Dying in itself isn't evil, but it does come as a result of our sins.  It is evil, though, for us to disobey God's will and to commit murder.  Of course, if we truly loved our neighbors as Jesus told us to do, we wouldn't commit murder.

”Numbers 31:14-18” Moses was angry at the Generals and Captains of the army and asked: Why have you kept all these women alive? Now, kill every male-child as well as every woman who has had sex with a man. But, the young girls who have not had sex with a man, you may keep alive for yourselves.
[/quote Wrote:They disobeyed god’s commandment to kill women and boys. How wicked of them. And Yahweh is so gracious that he didn’t require them to martyrdom to get their 7 virgins. Don’t you just love this god?

If it's evil to disobey god, then I'll just have to be evil.

They were totally evil people who received judgement for their crimes, but they were to be redeemed eventually by Christ for eternity. They were removed because they were actively trying to prevent the coming of that savior. Also, I believe that their deaths were much easier than a huge percentage of christian followers' deaths right now.

(February 22, 2016 at 2:28 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(February 21, 2016 at 10:13 pm)Lek Wrote: Seems that way to you, but if were talking God here, he created our world, not you.

And that's the bottom line. God doesn't do things out of love or justice. he does things because he can. Might makes right. So who the fuck are we to question the all mighty?

Why do you say that he doesn't act out of love or justice? Taking our punishment in our place is not love , and allowing us to suffer for our wrongs is not justice?