(March 7, 2016 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: Uhh...

Because I have the physical capability to do something, I have free will?

You're assuming that I can make a genuine choice to do it, rather than just doing it because that's what was going to happen anyway.

Another big problem is that "I" am not the same person from one moment to the next. "I" am just an abstract idea; my actual body is constantly replacing itself with new bits.

Source?

(March 7, 2016 at 12:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(March 7, 2016 at 6:50 am)pool the great Wrote: I have control over my actions.
Since I have control over my actions I have free will.
Free will exists because I have control over my actions.

*I have defined free will.
*Demonstrated that I poses free will.
*Showed that free will exists without assuming free will exists.

Except you haven't really demonstrated that you have control over your actions, which if false, demolishes your argument.  

It doesn't matter if it's true or false, simply making the claim demolishes any argument for free will based upon it, regardless of whether or not one actually has free will or free will even exists.  Claiming to have control over our actions is claiming to have free will.  It's a non-starter.

May as well have said;

I have free will
Since I have free will I have free will
Free will exists because I have free will

I've never understood the need to jump through hoops over free will. Either we have it or we don't, but it's difficult to see what the difference in our lives would be regardless. At best, it's an attribute that a person has failed to provide compelling argument for but possesses nevertheless, at worst, it's a delusion that harms no one.

(March 7, 2016 at 11:22 am)Rhythm Wrote: Negative, he has the ability, but ability and will (free or otherwise) are not interchangeable.....or so you've stated. Can you freely will to decide which of your contradictory statements is true, can you freely will to decide precisely what it is you are discussing? Do you possess the ability in either case?

All evidence to the contrary, as regards both, in this thread.

I think you skipped a part of the thread, go back and read from page 2..

(March 7, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(March 7, 2016 at 12:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Except you haven't really demonstrated that you have control over your actions, which if false, demolishes your argument.  

It doesn't matter if it's true or false, simply making the claim demolishes any argument for free will based upon it, regardless of whether or not one actually has free will or free will even exists.  Claiming to have control over our actions is claiming to have free will.  It assumes the conclusion.

Can I assume it's like that because you say so?

Is there some point for me to go back, have you decided which of your contradictory claims you'll be running with?  Have you provided an argument for this free will of yours that doesn;t assume you have it?  Just respond with that so there's no confusion.

(March 7, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(March 7, 2016 at 12:03 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Except you haven't really demonstrated that you have control over your actions, which if false, demolishes your argument.  

It doesn't matter if it's true or false, simply making the claim demolishes any argument for free will based upon it, regardless of whether or not one actually has free will or free will even exists.  Claiming to have control over our actions is claiming to have free will.  It's a non-starter.

May as well have said;

I have free will
Since I have free will I have free will
Free will exists because I have free will

I've never understood the need to jump through hoops over free will. Either we have it or we don't, but it's difficult to see what the difference in our lives would be regardless. At best, it's an attribute that a person has failed to provide compelling argument for but possesses nevertheless, at worst, it's a delusion that harms no one.

Right. It's like saying I know free will exists because I have it. It's not different from saying I know the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible.

I could imagine people using the "there is no such thing as free will" card to commit terrible acts against others, but people use all kinds of different excuses for committing terrible acts against others, so I guess it's irrelevant.

(March 7, 2016 at 12:37 pm)pool the great Wrote:

(March 7, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: It doesn't matter if it's true or false, simply making the claim demolishes any argument for free will based upon it, regardless of whether or not one actually has free will or free will even exists.  Claiming to have control over our actions is claiming to have free will.  It assumes the conclusion.

Can I assume it's like that because you say so?

It's like that because you said so.

Pool: you want a source for the body constantly replacing its cells?

I can look one up if you want, our resident biologists can probably produce a better one or kick my ass, whichever

@Camus Indeed it is (irrelevant).  In the same fashion, a person might claim that they did not "freely will" to murder another..what with not having any, but that doesn't change the fact that we'll need to remove that persons access to other potential victims.  You'll hear alot of slippery slope style arguments that, like free will, fail to materialize as claimed in the first place.

@Pool, is there more than one person posting on your account, or do you have some sort of short term memory issue? In any case, we haven't gotten to the point where we wonder which of your statements is sound, there's no need until you come up with a valid form. It could be true, you may really have free will, for example...the argument you've made fails regardless of whether or not you have free will, regardless of whether or not free will is what you say it is, and regardless of whether or not free will exists.

(March 7, 2016 at 12:18 pm)pool the great Wrote:

(March 7, 2016 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: Uhh...

Because I have the physical capability to do something, I have free will?

You're assuming that I can make a genuine choice to do it, rather than just doing it because that's what was going to happen anyway.

Another big problem is that "I" am not the same person from one moment to the next. "I" am just an abstract idea; my actual body is constantly replacing itself with new bits.

Source?

Source

Quote:How often are your cells replaced?

Your body is constantly replacing old cells with new ones at the rate of millions per second. By the time you finish reading this sentence, 50 million of your cells will have died and been replaced by others. Some are lost through 'wear and tear', some just reach the end of their life, and others deliberately self-destruct. The life cycle of every cell is carefully controlled, so you should always have just the right number of each type of cell.