(March 21, 2016 at 2:45 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Drich Wrote: Ah.. no. Not even close. They are both still theories. Google it. Black holes Eg: a Gravity well/What sci-fi depicts has this massive whirlpool in space sucking in everything including light, have never been witnessed, probed or even identified. All we have are long ranges pictures of unexplained darkness where we think their should be light. therefore we created 'blackholes.' then someone does that math and it is possible (on paper if 1/2 a dozen other unverified theories hold.) Then we begin to build on them and before long people like you insist on believing in them when in reality their is only as much poof of a black hole, as their is of God. For you, you have closed the gap between verifiable proof of a black hole, and just trusting that 'science' is right with the same exact faith we have in God.

What you have done there is to "not know how to science". Black holes explain the data and the physics that say what they are has been proved time and again. 

Here is a video of a black hole devouring a star.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Q3yk7K...RqqMrhtF_Q

OMG (glob) Your not serious are you?? You can't be seriously saying that the above Mike rowe narrated/animated sci-fi 'what if' story is evidence of a black hole???


Please tell me your joking, because if you think any of what was said is based in observable fact, then I am truly waisting my time here with you.
Black holes are theories ONLY:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
in 2014 Hawkins came up with a new theory:
http://www.space.com/24454-stephen-hawki...heory.html (which completely contradicts the video btw)
here are two other competing theories to the type of black hole found in your video:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsingula...ole_models
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravastar

So tell me again how "we have observed a black hole consuming a star..." Because I have just provided you 4 separate and conflicting theories on what black holes really are. Again, Stupid people can not separate Science from science fiction, they look right past the Gap between Science science fiction and bridge the lack of observable, verifiable evidence With FAITH!!! This is what you've done here. You can not tell the difference between science fiction and real science because to you through your misplaced faith in all things titled 'science' they are one in the same.

Your brain has been washed to believe with out question in your religion and god of science. You are no different than those in the church who blindly followed their idea of God into doing all sorts of evil. Every negitive/sheep aspect their is in the church, you have just displayed in your blind faith concerning science.

Do people like you really think this 'blind faith in science' is not being exploited by the government and big business?

If you tied your moral foundations to science and science can be controlled, then your very thought can also be controlled.

Quote:The data that was needed to prove with the higgs boson was discovered.
[quote]
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-the-higgs-boson-was-found-4723520/?no-ist

Again no.
They found the 'con-trails' not the actual aircraft..Which again was present in the original partial accelerator data.
Here is a Higgs for dummies explaination:

http://www.sparknotes.com/mindhut/2013/1...or-dummies

Their was Soooo Much pressure from those who spent the billions to build the accelerator @ cern the scientist caved and redressed up the pig they already had (the same evidence they used to get the Accelerator built in the first places) as proof positive of the Higgs. And again people's faith in science bridges the gap.

The truth is we still have not observed the particle. Yet 'science' is selling the Fiction that we have and people like you just gobble up whatever they say with out question.

Quote:Either way the claim you made that 'science is only about things we can document and verify' is so far off the mark it is not even funny. In the case of black holes I'd be almost willing to bet the farm that you nor I will ever come close to seeing the 'scientific proof' of a black hole. Yet here you are can't distinguish the difference between scientific theory, Science fiction and reality.

Quote:Black holes have been proved to exist, now can I have your farm?

Sure, just provide the demonstrable proof. Again, there is more tangable proof of God Almighty than their is of a black hole, but you are so wrapped up in not questioning your 'faith.' I doubt you will ever leave your delusion, even though you can not produce any proof.

Quote:You want me to explain why scientists want more sensitive equipment! really this is a thing I have to explain to you! Can't you work it out for yourself? I mean think about it real hard, you can do it. I'll wait for you to catch up.

Look at how elementry I am willing to go to try and explain what I think should be common sense. If I am willing to do this for you then please, maybe you see something I don't.

Quote:They got some very good results from tests. reached the end of what they could do with that technology then got a better one. This isn't hard stuff to figure out D.

Ah.. no. They got the same result. They built a bigger colider because they thought they could exponentially cause and record more particle collisions thus increasing the liklyhood of witnessing the higgs boson. When infact after 3 or 4 years they just got more of the same.

Quote:Because you are a qualified particle physicist who can evaluate complex data of the sort you are rubbishing, no then STFU.

That's always the 'dig' with the god of science isn't it? It's the equlivant of "God works in mysterious ways" in the church. Meaning when ever someone questions the great God of science someone like you (defending the faith) tries to top shelf the discussion (put it out of reach of the non experts.) Here's the problem with that dark age approach ofputting 'the common man' in his place... It's call google. Now granted Cern can indeed flood the first 1/2 dozen pages of a google search with their planted headlines, but If you know what to look for and continue to dig, the truth (as written by particle physicists) can also be found.

Quote:Money may be the driver in some of science Laboritoire garnier I'm looking at you but there is a lot of science for science sake as well and good science done well is what our whole society is based on.

Name me one field of 'science' that does not require millions if not trillions to research and support?

Do you think any organization is giving away millions for the pure advancement of science no strings attached? If so you are more than a fool. Science, all science is advanced by the money driving it. its an industry like any other with the same pit falls and weakness every other big industry is subject to. People/scientists are bought and paid for all the time. Science is the new art of control. You go to school, they pick you up from the alter of God (where their is little to no control due to all the different version of Christianity) and force you to now kneel at the alter of science where the dollar controls everything.

Quote:'Science' may have started out as you say, but those days are long, long over.

Quote:You are wrong.

Again show me a field of science that does not require billions to stay aloft.
Or explain how the billions are generated without any terms and or conditions on 'discovery.'

Quote: Science is not about what is believed but what can be proved and that is a vital difference that makes it infinitely superior to the mind retarding nature of religion.

Like black holes and 'god particles.'

(March 21, 2016 at 7:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Something that's really kind of funny is how a lot of theists still view science as this weirdly nefarious, clandestine, dishonest thing that is basically a stand-in for religion, just with a different name.  It's not.  That would be Scientology, which is a particularly despicable form of woo.

No, science is a process.  An incredibly simple and logical one.  Observe.  Question.  Hypothesize.  Experiment.  Apply the results to reality.  Do they match the hypothesis?  If so, is there anything else that the results show?  If not, why not?  Hypothesize.  Experiment.  Etc.

We don't have faith in science.  Science isn't a deity.  We understand and trust in the process, but still realize that it's only as sound as its weakest links - the humans engaging in it.  That's why peer review is a necessary step.  We also realize that the answers science provide are merely the best explanation given the evidence we currently possess.  Science never produces absolutes, which is something that seems to confound those that don't understand it.  It's never "That's just the way it is, period" but rather "According to observation, experimentation, a lot of math, and peer review, this is our best explanation."

But, when you have people who don't understand science, who view it through the lens of religion (binary), and who are more than willing to swallow wholesale what people who have a similar distrust of science say (climate change deniers, Higgs deniers, anti-vaxers, etc.), ignorance perpetuates itself under the guise of 'free thinking' and society itself suffers.

Yeah.. whateves.. see the above post.

(March 21, 2016 at 8:26 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote:

Drich Wrote:Now again, to you is killing a baby a "positive" thing?

Depends. Is this fried chicken?

You do know that the chicken egg (yolk) is a single cell right?

(March 21, 2016 at 3:23 pm)KevinM1 Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 1:33 pm)Drich Wrote: Then please oh great Learn-ed one, demonstrate my lack of knowledge by setting me straight. Turn turning that AdHom into a real rebuttal with a little verifiable substance.

I already set you straight months ago regarding the Higgs.  Or do you not remember me pointing out how you misinterpreted what the sigma actually was and what it meant?

Regarding black holes, there's a veritable ton of observation on them.

That you cling to your own misguided notions of science (e.g., science wants to believe, as though it's an anthropomorphic entity with desires) is your problem, not mine.  It's not my fault you didn't pay attention in high school.

EDIT: a 2 second internet search on black holes -

http://www.nasa.gov/content/nasa-led-stu...servations
http://news.discovery.com/space/galaxies...130227.htm
http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/06/o...to-hiding/

But, no, they don't exist.  Idiot.

Did you actually read the articles you posted? completely??

The Nasa 'observation' was based on the: "The study was based on a non-rotating black hole." THEORY!!!

Do you understand what was observed? X-Rays (no visible light) measured across a spanse of space you can not even fathom, supposedly reacted in a predictable way in accordance with the non rotating black hole theory.

And if you take the time to read the crap you post each one of the other 'black hole observations' is also based on somehow measuring non visible light accurately over 100's of thousands of light years away and it supposedly reacting with one black hole theory or another in a predictable way. The problem? the theories do not all compliment each other. Most of them preclude one another. that means for one observation to be correct several 'observations' must be wrong.

So again, if you believe a given black hole THEORY is correct you do so out of FAITH unless you are stupid and simply do not know that the various theories do not support one another meaning you think all black hole theories are just different types of black holes.

(March 21, 2016 at 3:49 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Did Drippy Doodle ACTUALLY call the LHC a POS???  Did I read that correctly?  The largest machine in the world, possibly the most respected scientific institution in the world, a globally interconnected group of scientists responsible for some of the most impactful and impressive new discoveries in particle physics - - he called it a piece of shit?   Just . . . how . . . ignorant . . . and . . . deluded . . .           

Oh.  Waitaminnit.  It's Drippy. He's one o' dem preechurs who tells folks not to go to college because then they'll think they're smarter than gawd. (I actually had a preacher tell me this, when I was going off to college.)

A brain is a terrible thing to waste.   

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/higgs-boson-ill...ll-1473742
http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.....90.035012

In essence what this is saying is because the Accelerator @ cern can not record the Higgs/Boson before it decays (The one f-ing thing it was designed to do) the remaining 'technicolor' goo can be attributed to 'other' particals.

Which means two things. One the Higgs was never discovered we via the accelerator at Cern can only detect it's con-trails (Vapor trails of a really high flying aircraft) before it (supposedly) winks out of existence. Now this remianing 'technicolor goo' that the cern scientists say comes from the higgs, could indeed, but it could also be source from several other possible sources. (according to the IB Times and the follow up paper it references)
That means if the accelerator @ Cern Can not do the one thing its supposed to do... (detect the Higgs) then it is a multi Billion Euro POS.

The cern supercollider is just a bigger more expensive version of the smaller colliers we already have. The only thing it does better is smash more particals at a fast rate. The reason this is important is because the reaction when helium particles are smashed is not always the same. so millions if not billions of particles must be destroyed inorder to get the result they are looking for. So "bigger" mean more Smash. More Smash means greater chance of observing the type of smash they are looking for.

So after running this thing smashing countless particles, what did they find??? The Same 'contrails" they had from the original experiments, but is slightly better detail. So they take that same pig dress it up in a different dress and march it out to you guys and poof, your Faith takes over.

You don't question you don't ask, you just make fun of the guy who askes the 'great scientists' why is it you think the world is flat?

So how about it Kenobi???

Is Killing babies 'making a positive difference' to you???

(March 22, 2016 at 10:22 am)Drich Wrote: You do know that the chicken egg (yolk) is a single cell right?

If it's unfertilized.

(March 21, 2016 at 7:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Something that's really kind of funny is how a lot of theists still view science as this weirdly nefarious, clandestine, dishonest thing that is basically a stand-in for religion, just with a different name.  It's not.  That would be Scientology, which is a particularly despicable form of woo.

No, science is a process.  An incredibly simple and logical one.  Observe.  Question.  Hypothesize.  Experiment.  Apply the results to reality.  Do they match the hypothesis?  If so, is there anything else that the results show?  If not, why not?  Hypothesize.  Experiment.  Etc.

We don't have faith in science.  Science isn't a deity.  We understand and trust in the process, but still realize that it's only as sound as its weakest links - the humans engaging in it.  That's why peer review is a necessary step.  We also realize that the answers science provide are merely the best explanation given the evidence we currently possess.  Science never produces absolutes, which is something that seems to confound those that don't understand it.  It's never "That's just the way it is, period" but rather "According to observation, experimentation, a lot of math, and peer review, this is our best explanation."

But, when you have people who don't understand science, who view it through the lens of religion (binary), and who are more than willing to swallow wholesale what people who have a similar distrust of science say (climate change deniers, Higgs deniers, anti-vaxers, etc.), ignorance perpetuates itself under the guise of 'free thinking' and society itself suffers.

keep drinking the koolaide, that's right gulp it down. Ignore What I just showed you about how your faith in science is no different than a religious zealot's faith in his own religion is the exact same. (Your assumptions that black holes are scientific fact and not a theory.) Keep pretending that 'science' is always about demonstrable fact and does not ask for faith. That way when 'science' demands you believe in "X" what ever that maybe you will just hand your mind and faith right over without question. Just like those mindlessly following their own religions.. but different because the word 'God' and the Word 'Science' start with different letters and can't be the same even if the mindless adherence of it's followers is the same net result.

Gravity is a theory, you moron. The scientific meaning of the word is not the same as the layperson's. It doesn't mean guess or hunch or anything else without much substantiation.

(March 21, 2016 at 8:10 pm)Kitan Wrote:

(March 21, 2016 at 1:25 pm)Drich Wrote: For example Is Killing babies to you, making a 'positive difference' on society?

Correction:

For you, it is erroneously thought of as killing a baby.

For those of us who are more rational and intelligent, it is the understanding of removing a bundle of cells that could potentially be a baby if it progressed past the point of legal termination via abortion.  

Seriously, learn to science.

Says who? your god of 'science?'
Don't you get you answer is precisely what it is i am trying to demonstrate?

"Science" has become your God, it help set your pop moral values and it is through science things like putting babies through a meat grinder process becomes justified/moral.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/.../index.htm

The pics above are not just a random assortment of 'cells.' Viable babies are being scrambled in the name of 'choice' because 'science' was used to remove these children's humanity.