Posts: 624
Threads: 1
Joined: December 4, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:35 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 8:08 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 5:32 pm)AAA Wrote: If all sequences of 10 are acceptable, then the chance of getting an acceptable sequence is 100%. If only a few sequences are acceptable (as is the case with proteins) then the chance of getting an acceptable sequence is low.
So let's tweak a few variables. Let's say that only one sequence of ten cards is acceptable, and let's give us several million years to draw it. Let's also say that, in every draw, if you get a card in a workable position on the sequence you get to keep it there, even if the other nine cards are out of sequence, and bring it through to the next drawing.
Now you've got something closer to the natural selection process. What do you think the chances are of getting the right sequence in millions of years now?
Yeah, but natural selection applies to replicating systems, which is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a protein forming, not a gene developing as an organism reproduces. So you don't get to keep the functional card, because without all the functional cards you have no replication and no selection.
Posts: 67206
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:35 pm
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2016 at 10:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Oh boy, more making and simultaneously breaking of rules and inferences....this is bound to be productive and reasonable. 
Look, if you aren't going to stick with something, save yourself the trouble of bringing it up. At least then you won't have to tie yourself into a knot to get around it later.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:38 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 10:35 pm)AAA Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 8:08 pm)Esquilax Wrote: So let's tweak a few variables. Let's say that only one sequence of ten cards is acceptable, and let's give us several million years to draw it. Let's also say that, in every draw, if you get a card in a workable position on the sequence you get to keep it there, even if the other nine cards are out of sequence, and bring it through to the next drawing.
Now you've got something closer to the natural selection process. What do you think the chances are of getting the right sequence in millions of years now?
Yeah, but natural selection applies to replicating systems, which is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a protein forming, not a gene developing as an organism reproduces. So you don't get to keep the functional card, because without all the functional cards you have no replication and no selection.
You are talking about magical gods, lol. You don't get to demand evidence for evolution while simultaneously shirking the responsibility of providing evidence for the supernatural.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Posts: 624
Threads: 1
Joined: December 4, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:39 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 7:50 pm)robvalue Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 7:29 pm)AAA Wrote: We all know you do have beliefs about it. Non designed life would be much simpler. We could calculate the formation of its structures without arriving at unbelievably improbable numbers. It wouldn't depend on information. Life probably wouldn't have developed into slowly reproducing organisms like elephants and other large mammals, because the most fit organism from an evolutionary point of view is that which is able to produce the most viable offspring. Microbes excel at this, and I would expect life to never amount to much more than that. I wouldn't expect it to be dependent on protein machines.
My beliefs are irrelevant. You are making claims, not me.
So you've just described non-designed life, after saying it would be impossible to describe.
How do you know any of this, that you've just described? Your criteria is how simple it is? If I give you a life form, what exactly will you do with it to determine if it was designed or not? You'll do a probability calculation and announce it is designed if your number falls below...an arbitrary value?
If I had a fool proof way to distinguish between designed and non-designed, I would be a nobel prize winning biologist. You are asking the impossible. It would be like me saying: describe in detail the events of the formation of the universe. If you can't do it, then you cannot continue to discuss scientific arguments as you are arguing from ignorance. That would not be fair. You can't ask me to answer one of the greatest questions of all time and then ridicule me when I don't give the answer you think to be correct.
Posts: 67206
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:42 pm
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2016 at 10:44 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(April 1, 2016 at 10:39 pm)AAA Wrote: If I had a fool proof way to distinguish between designed and non-designed, I would be a nobel prize winning biologist. You are asking the impossible.
If it's impossible, than how, precisely, have you managed to do so? If you haven't or can't do so, then how, precisely, do you hope to establish the veracity of your comments in that regard? You're being ridiculed because you can't give an answer at all...by reference to your own claims, and yet you do......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 624
Threads: 1
Joined: December 4, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:44 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 10:38 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 10:35 pm)AAA Wrote: Yeah, but natural selection applies to replicating systems, which is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a protein forming, not a gene developing as an organism reproduces. So you don't get to keep the functional card, because without all the functional cards you have no replication and no selection.
You are talking about magical gods, lol. You don't get to demand evidence for evolution while simultaneously shirking the responsibility of providing evidence for the supernatural.
I literally didn't do any of the three things you mentioned.
Posts: 265
Threads: 1
Joined: March 2, 2016
Reputation:
1
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:45 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 10:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Ya know...the last 3 or so pages of this thread is just you, AJW, special pleading. Why are we even entertaining the world's most drawn out logical fucking fallacy? It's ridiculous. Sorry, but you don't get to say, "you guys have to follow ALL these scientific rules! But my God doesn't because he's immune to all the rules!" Logical fallacy. Mind-set of a 4 year old. My imaginary friend gets to do whatever he wants. Look at it this way, if there was an all powerful God that did create the universe and was responsible for designing and creating life, then you would be wrong wouldn't you? All of the so-called proof of evolution would be rendered false and meaningless whilst my "faith of a 4 year old" would prove to have been the better choice. If I am wrong and there is no God, what have I lost? Nothing really, unless you can show me that the life of an atheist is far better than the life of a Christian.
Posts: 624
Threads: 1
Joined: December 4, 2015
Reputation:
1
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:45 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 10:42 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 10:39 pm)AAA Wrote: If I had a fool proof way to distinguish between designed and non-designed, I would be a nobel prize winning biologist. You are asking the impossible.
If it's impossible, than how, precisely, have you managed to do so? If you haven't or can't do so, then how, precisely, do you hope to establish the veracity of your comments in that regard? You're being ridiculed because you can't give an answer at all...by reference to your own claims, and yet you do......
What would designed life look like then? Apparently this is a fair question. Remember, If you can't answer you lose
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:46 pm
I seriously want to shoot Blaise Pascal through the testicles.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation:
92
The Problem with Christians
April 1, 2016 at 10:47 pm
(April 1, 2016 at 10:45 pm)AJW333 Wrote: (April 1, 2016 at 10:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Ya know...the last 3 or so pages of this thread is just you, AJW, special pleading. Why are we even entertaining the world's most drawn out logical fucking fallacy? It's ridiculous. Sorry, but you don't get to say, "you guys have to follow ALL these scientific rules! But my God doesn't because he's immune to all the rules!" Logical fallacy. Mind-set of a 4 year old. My imaginary friend gets to do whatever he wants. Look at it this way, if there was an all powerful God that did create the universe and was responsible for designing and creating life, then you would be wrong wouldn't you? All of the so-called proof of evolution would be rendered false and meaningless whilst my "faith of a 4 year old" would prove to have been the better choice. If I am wrong and there is no God, what have I lost? Nothing really, unless you can show me that the life of an atheist is far better than the life of a Christian.
Oh, no! Pascal's Wager? Have we devolved into this now?
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
|
