You're very welcome I can fully see how depression can seem to an outsider, it's one of those "invisible" illnesses. I respect you a lot for changing your position on this.

Thank you mamacita for starting this thread, and thank you to everyone who has contributed. It helps me a lot to talk about my problems. It has given me a positive start to the day to be able to share with my friends.

I want to repeat again that I'm only citing my experiences, I don't mean to represent every depressed person. I have found however that everyone I've talked to has been able to relate to at least some of it. So it might serve as a general picture. I'm sure everyone's experiences are going to be different.

I will write you a proper reply a bit later Goosebump, when I'm more awake on on my laptop. Thank you for the questions I appreciate you taking the time to learn, rather than looking for ways to dismiss.

I've had many bouts of depression but am doing quite well now.
I am on anti depressants. They are like a crutch that I use while my mind heals.
Like Rob said, behavioural therapy is the real healing mechanism.
My depression presents itself similarly to others but I react a little differently.
Instead of getting sad I get angry. I loose control of rationality and blow everything out of proportion.
I pick fights with people, mostly those I perceive to be bullies.
Not just bikies and drug dealers but also bosses, police, bodybuilders, you name it.
I'd rather die than back down. I think that's the suicidal element.
Then later after the adrenalin rush is over a realisation comes over me.
I've lost another job, burnt a new bridge, received another charge.
I go from feeling like a superhero to feeling like I cause too much destruction and everybody, including the people I love, would be better off without me.
The birth of my daughter saved me for sure.
I could never leave her behind or let her think that suicide is an exceptable solution.
I've been fairly non-violent for close to five years now.
But the trail of destruction goes back 30 years.
The ability to solve problems non-violently has given me a new life.
I'm so much happier. Having control is infinitely more satisfying.
I wish I could get a hold of young, violent offenders and let them see inside my mind.
Yeah, I'm starting to ramble off now. :-)

(April 10, 2016 at 4:49 am)robvalue Wrote: You're very welcome I can fully see how depression can seem to an outsider, it's one of those "invisible" illnesses. I respect you a lot for changing your position on this.

Thank you mamacita for starting this thread, and thank you to everyone who has contributed. It helps me a lot to talk about my problems. It has given me a positive start to the day to be able to share with my friends.

I want to repeat again that I'm only citing my experiences, I don't mean to represent every depressed person. I have found however that everyone I've talked to has been able to relate to at least some of it. So it might serve as a general picture. I'm sure everyone's experiences are going to be different.

I will write you a proper reply a bit later Goosebump, when I'm more awake on on my laptop. Thank you for the questions I appreciate you taking the time to learn, rather than looking for ways to dismiss.

Hey no problem. The praise is yours for putting up with me. It really has meant allot and I feel better about myself for knowing these things. I'm 1% less of a prick now 

goosebump, you're absolutely not being a prick now. I appreciate your participation in this thread. I wish more people asked instead of simply making their own misguided conclusions. 

Robvalue, empress, littlelunch, thanks for your input. I love to read other takes on this coming from those with the experience.

Depression certainly isn't fun. Been there. Not nice.

I'm sorry to hear you've been through it too Lauren

(April 10, 2016 at 4:00 am)Goosebump Wrote: So when your normal are you able to reason against the "jerk"? Are you able to have a thought process outside the normal monologue? Or are you actively reasoning against the "jerk" like arguing with yourself?

Yeah, when I'm feeling strong, occasionally I notice that one of my thoughts is way out of whack. I should note that I'm not "hearing voices" as such, it's just the normal thought process. I'm sure everyone gets weird thoughts now and again, I did even when I was healthy. So when I'm in a relatively balanced state of mind, a sudden "Why don't you go kill yourself?" stands out like a sore thumb. I can tell that this thought has been hijacked by the jerk. It even makes me laugh in such blatant situations. The jerk knows this, which is why he holds back for fear of making himself too easy to spot.

I suppose the way I could describe it is I'm receiving mail. These are my thoughts. I open the mail, to see what thoughts I'm being sent. I then send "replies", by thinking about those thoughts. I then get more mail, as a result of these thoughts, and so on. I know it's a bit weird. I've always felt a kind of duality, that there is "me" and then there's "my brain". Like I have to do things in order to please my brain, so that I feel happy.

So the mail all arrives in the same format. In the same handwriting. It's the difference in style I'm looking for. Sometimes, as I said, I get whacky ideas come into my head anyway. Like, "Wouldn't it be cool to get a sniper rifle and shoot some people from up there?" Who knows where those thoughts come from. But I immediately recognize them as ridiculous, there's never any danger of me taking them seriously.

But the jerk thoughts are trying to camouflage themselves. What I actually do, if I'm trying to pick them apart, is to talk out loud to myself. I say, "What is the evidence for this thought?" Part of CBT involves writing the thoughts down, to analyse them in even more detail. So I send back the thoughts into my head, requesting evidence for the mail I just opened. If all I get are grumbles or really lame reasons, I can be pretty sure it was a jerk thought. If I'm more vulnerable, those lame reasons will seem more convincing, as it will play around my weaknesses. It will use the situation, and all my other thoughts, knowledge and beliefs. It's like an inside man, a spy who reports back the best way to attack. So I do have a dialogue with myself, where I analyse my thoughts. Once the thought has been had, it's like it is on the table. Like an open letter. And then I think about that thought.

I hope that made some sort of sense!

Quote:When your "at my worst" does the "jerk" take over the all the reasoning?

Almost entirely, yeah. It's like it subdues the rational part of my brain, and takes its place. Then my rational voice is the one whimpering in the corner, barely being heard. It kind of hijacks the reasoning, by messing with my ability to think clearly. I suspect it's got a lot to do with chemical imbalances, like you said before. It feels like all the logic circuits have been messed with, so I'm no longer able to analyse the thoughts properly. I'm just at the mercy of the jerk, telling me whatever it wants.

I can fight really hard, and using massive concentration and outside help, I can put together rational arguments which part of me knows are valid. But even so, it is really hard to believe them. It's like trying to do trigonometry while someone is kicking you in the head, as Douglas Adams once said.

The jerk even had me convinced, that I actually was the jerk now. That there wasn't anything else.

Quote:When it makes a claim like "leave her!" does the emotion, this is so weird, is it like a feeling of validation related to the statement? Like if you preferred the one thing over another, you have that pull, that "yes that's what I like" no word feeling associated with it? For example when I solve a problem I feel good about my solution. I feel pride. Is it like that?

Yes, something like that I think. It's similar to a rush of adrenaline, telling me to "act now". Do this! You have to! It's in your best instincts! Get on with it! So yeah, it's making my body tell me it's the correct course of action. It simulates images of how I would feel if I followed this advice. And they seemed really real. It was tempting me into action.

Quote:As for the drugs, I like the descriptor of the "jerk" sitting in the corner. Does it still have a voice in your monologue? If so is it quieter? Does it lack the emotion you mentioned earlier? What exactly limits it's power? What changes in it's suggestiveness?

Good question. I think it makes it harder for the jerk to manipulate my emotions, to make me "feel" like it's telling me the truth. It can't so easily give me that sense of urgency to act on it like I described above. Another way of describing it is that the volume on it is turned down. Instead of a loadspeaker, it's more of a whisper, when I'm at my best. It's almost like it loses its confidence, because it knows I am more resilient. It is a bully, essentially.

Quote:Also I wanted to say that up until now I've been a "rub some dirt on it" type guy when it came to hearing "I'm depressed" kinda comments. This is so outside my experience it's totally alien. But I know now I'll never see it that way again. Thanks for that.

I am so impressed that you've taken what we've said on board. In my experience, not many people change their positions on things like this. So major kudos to you! Most people's eyes just glaze over when I talk to them about it, and I can see them already dismissing everything I'm saying so they can go back to believing there's basically nothing wrong with me.

I can understand it being alien. It was to me, when I first experienced it. If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to try and answer. And for everyone on here who suffers from depression, you can always send me a private message anytime, sharing whatever thoughts you have. You can be sure I'll understand. I've had the darkest, sickest, most horrible thoughts imaginable, so nothing is going to shock me or make me judge people.

(April 10, 2016 at 3:12 am)Goosebump Wrote:

(April 10, 2016 at 3:09 am)Mamacita Wrote: In my case reason does help. A lot.
I'm capable of analyzing the present, how the past has shaped my circumstances and what I have to do to crawl out. Reason is my best armor.

I love your responses, robvalue!

Do you have to document the past to make sure it squares and your depression voice isn't messing with you? Or is that not even a concern? It's not like a memento scenario lite?

For what seemed like an eon or two but was probably more like a year I squirmed in my depression.  I mourned the easy joy and what I remembered as the eager anticipation with which I had greeted each new day.  I desperately wanted back into that existence.

Then one day I just said goodbye to that existence and really moved into my new one.  It was a roach infested bum's dive of an existence but it was mine.  I stopped lamenting the past.  If dregs were my allotment then dregs it would be.  Incrementally I've come to appreciate my new surroundings.  Of course not everything in my life was shit and even if my bubbly enthusiasm was missing I began to enjoy some bits more than others, even if only in a quiet sort of way.

I've never really reconciled my two lives but I feel pretty good about them both.  I probably build up my earlier life in my memory beyond what it had ever been.  But I know there had been exquisite moments and I'm glad for those too.  I am content.  I've even made a garden which affords me some sublime moments even if not giddy ones.

I'm really enjoying everyone's input. It's interesting, because everyone has experienced it differently, yet there are so many similarities. Whateverist has a garden. I have my dates with myself.

In my case, when people mention "when I was depressed" or "I was depressed for a year", it's interesting and I want to learn more about that experience, because it has been different to me. I want to learn more about how they met it, was it scary, you know, the new experience. 

I have suffered depression since I was six. I don't know what it's like to live a whole year without an appearance. All I know is how to fight it, thrive, camouflage it, control, and recognize it. I don't just survive anymore. I'm living, but when someone asks if I'm depressed, it feels incorrect. It sounds like a common cold. Like something that I'm momentarily experiencing. I have chronic depression. It's the only life I've known. 

Yet, those of you who know me, know I'm not a crying baby every day. Actually, I laugh and smile a lot. I'm a happy person with chronic depression. Heh. Makes sense to me.

(April 10, 2016 at 3:12 am)The_Empress Wrote: In addition to Rob's and Mama's contris, depression for me is like an ant farm, where I've been digging tunnels, trying to get somewhere, and next thing I know, I've dug my own maze with no way of knowing which direction I came from or where I should go; trying to figure out if there's even a point to getting there.

I'm sloooooowly coming out of the worst episode of my life. Some days are ok; some days are shit. Today was kind of shit, but not unbearable shit.

Some days I have a bloodlust that is somewhat unbearable, then I let off some steam, usually at those that are my friends. Shit. I don't get depressed, I leave a wake of mayhem. Been working on that with my technician, as usually, bursting out steam hurt more the ones I love than the ones that harmed me. I will not be defeated.

(April 10, 2016 at 12:08 pm)Mamacita Wrote: I'm really enjoying everyone's input. It's interesting, because everyone has experienced it differently, yet there are so many similarities. Whateverist has a garden. I have my dates with myself.

In my case, when people mention "when I was depressed" or "I was depressed for a year", it's interesting and I want to learn more about that experience, because it has been different to me. I want to learn more about how they met it, was it scary, you know, the new experience. 

I have suffered depression since I was six. I don't know what it's like to live a whole year without an appearance. All I know is how to fight it, thrive, camouflage it, control, and recognize it. I don't just survive anymore. I'm living, but when someone asks if I'm depressed, it feels incorrect. It sounds like a common cold. Like something that I'm momentarily experiencing. I have chronic depression. It's the only life I've known. 

Yet, those of you who know me, know I'm not a crying baby every day. Actually, I laugh and smile a lot. I'm a happy person with chronic depression. Heh. Makes sense to me.

I went through a bout of depression in my twenties, relating to how my parents were treating me. I become paralysed with it at one point, I found myself unable to move for a good half an hour. My body had decided there was no point to ever doing anything ever again. It took me a year and a half of CBT and a lot of hard work to fight back from suicidal to just about coping. I managed to move away from parents, to live on my own, and it was absolute bliss. The depression seemed to finally drop away, and I was happy for a few years.

Then I got struck down suddenly with CFS. The depression soon returned. That was about 10 years ago now. I've been depressed ever since, all that has varied is the intensity. About 6 years ago I was at hell's gate, every second seemed an eternity of suffering. I begged for death.

With an awful out of work and therapy I managed to crawl back up to "barely coping", but not quite suicidal all the time. This dragged on for a lot more years. Eventually I couldn't stand it any more and I was deteriorating again, so I sought out more professional help and begged for more anti depressants. I got my dose increased, and I saw an excellent therapist. She helped me make some major adjustments to my attitude, ones I didn't realise I needed to make. It made a massive difference.

I'm still suicidal, I fantasise about being dead most days. It's just not as frequent or as strong as it was, and I am able to push it aside and get on with things more of the time. I've tried through all of this to stay as positive as possible, to keep fighting and never give up. How I made it here, I don't know. It's a testament especially to my wife, without her I doubt I'd be alive today. And to the excellent mental health professionals who helped me.

I may have CFS for life, and my depression is likely to last at least as long as that does. I may well always be struggling with it. I have a weird kind of cognitive dissonance where I can't bear the thought of not being with my wife, pets and friends; yet I want to be dead as well. I want it all to be over. But I decided a long time ago that I would never do that to my loved ones. I decided suicide was not an option. And based on that, there's only been one time I've actually been in danger of going through with it. That's quite amazing considering how long I've spent fantasising about it.

So now I'm as strong as I have been since this depression started, but it's still very much there, and it doesn't take much for it to spring on me. I get very emotional really easily, and sometimes floods of tears get triggered by something and need to be let out. Life is hard, every day is a grind, with both my CFS and depression. But I keep going, because of those who care about me, and so I can hopefully do some good in the world.