(April 18, 2016 at 12:25 am)robvalue Wrote: That they do.

I'm not sure what the answer is. It's hard for me to say having never experienced it. Maybe one of our ex-theists can enlighten me.

I guess they think following God is making them do those bad things less, even if that's not actually true. If, for example, someone has been indoctrinated from birth, they will have nothing to compare to. So they can simply be told they would do the bad things more, if they didn't "follow God", and be programmed to believe it.

Kind of like everyone generally assumes their childhood is normal, until they have someone else's to compare to.

Quite. In fact, the evangelicals revel in "conversion stories", in which they "testify" to their fellow congregants how Jesus came in and changed their behavior and made them better, though of course they also say it's a struggle. It is entirely possible that, for people who need structure and order and hierarchy in their lives, it might actually make them better people to have an easily-digested system to which to compare their behavior and set "higher" ethical behavior goals within that framework. (See also Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.)

[ETA: this paragraph] It may be quite possible to measure a quantifiable change in the better behavior of those who become Believers and follow the path set out by that tradition... however, I would venture to say that in a large (too large) percent of their flock, the ones who genuinely change for the better and treat others well are too few. Even they recognize this, though, when they talk about how few in the actual church are "heaven bound" (read: in compliance with our scriptures and social order). Some will conform out of peer pressure, others out of sincere desire to be better as God Himself (they believe) commanded, and still others do it for selfish reasons or to avoid repercussion... but for many, nevertheless, it is likely a positive influence. It's when it becomes a mass-psychology situation, when the cult becomes a movement, that it begins to be threatening to others and not just to themselves. That may be weighed down by the effect in establishing a social order, provided there are secular restrictions in place. Enforced if necessary.

In other words, I don't see it, in itself, as a bad thing. However, as you have pointed out, it's easy to waylay and turn it into something dangerous, especially in large groups that attain power over centuries, each new generation unaware of how much detritus they are swallowing from the previous generations in that tradition... or how it alters somewhat with time.

We should not discount the feelings of the Believers, nor fail to grasp what is going on biologically, when their brains tell them certain information.

I see belief a problem to any degree.

Belief is nothing more than preferring the comforting lie over the harsh truth.

I agree Rocket. I've tried very hard to see things from the theist's perspective, it's become one of my goals here. It is alien to me, however I can somewhat relate through psychological abuse I have experienced which left me with irrational beliefs.

I've tried very hard. How much success I've had, I'm not sure. I feel I have had at least some, since joining here.

I can understand how easily a falsehood can become the truth, especially when most people around you are reaffirming it.

That reminds me of this video.

http://youtu.be/Y201QzDdzbg

(April 17, 2016 at 4:57 am)AJW333 Wrote:

(April 16, 2016 at 3:59 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: God didn't make that rule, so no it's not bullshit.

Sure he did. The Jews weren't allowed to have sex outside of marriage and no one in Israel married children.

  You're joking, right?


Somebody get this dude a history book...you do consider 12- and 13-year-olds to be children, right? Please tell me you think 13-year-olds are children.

Quote:This doesn't say to rape the girls. As I indicated, sex was forbidden outside marriage so these girls would have been spared and married at a later stage.

Are you a child? What do you think "save for yourselves" meant?


By the way, guess what it's called when you conquer a country, take home one of the women as a prisoner after killing her whole family, marry her, and fuck her. Go on, guess.


I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with rape.

Quote:The "delusional voice" inside my head says that despite what I would like to say or do, I need to exercise self-control, exhibit patience and kindness and demonstrate the love of God.

If the Bible is any indication, I'm pretty sure demonstrating the love of God will get you thrown in jail in most states.

(April 17, 2016 at 4:57 am)AJW333 Wrote:

(April 16, 2016 at 3:59 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: God didn't make that rule, so no it's not bullshit.

Sure he did. The Jews weren't allowed to have sex outside of marriage and no one in Israel married children.

(April 16, 2016 at 3:59 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: In fact to show you how evil your god is, he clearly mandates that his people rape the young girls of their defeated enemies:

'Numbers 31 7-18'
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

This doesn't say to rape the girls. As I indicated, sex was forbidden outside marriage so these girls would have been spared and married at a later stage.

(April 16, 2016 at 3:59 pm)Constable Dorfl Wrote: So before you go on at us about morality, fucktard, have a word with the little delusional schizophrenic voice inside your head about your own morality.

The "delusional voice" inside my head says that despite what I would like to say or do, I need to exercise self-control, exhibit patience and kindness and demonstrate the love of God.

Carry on AJW, far be it for me to stop a man from hoisting himself by his own petard.

(April 18, 2016 at 2:59 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: By the way, guess what it's called when you conquer a country, take home one of the women as a prisoner after killing her whole family, marry her, and fuck her. Go on, guess.


I'll give you a hint. It rhymes with rape.

Hoooooooooooooooooooooly crap, Redbeard! Bwahahahahahaha!

(April 16, 2016 at 10:12 am)Divinity Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:28 pm)AJW333 Wrote: Like having sex with children? Are they bullshit rules too?

Funny thing.  God never said you couldn't have sex with children.

He outlawed gay sex, pre-marital sex, shellfish, working on sunday, wearing clothes of mixed fabrics, and all sorts of other shit.  But not once Pedophilia.  Kind of fucking funny, ain't it?

It was a given that you didn't have sex with children. That would be premarital sex,and  since the Jews didn't marry children, they wouldn't be having sex would they?

(April 18, 2016 at 6:43 pm)AJW333 Wrote: It was a given that you didn't have sex with children.

And you would be entirely wrong in that assumption, since what we consider children now was a totally accepted age for marriage back then and far into the Middle Ages. Not only with jews, christians or muslims, but also with Greeks and Romans.

You might do well to actually look up the ages of brides to wealthy families in the Middle Ages. The best documented period for these kinds of practices.

(April 16, 2016 at 7:05 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:28 pm)AJW333 Wrote: Like having sex with children? Are they bullshit rules too?

Holy fucking shit, do you want to make a larger leap in order to poison the well?

I'll give you a hint: pederasty hurts people, homosexuality does not.

Then why was homosexuality listed as a mental health disorder by the American Psychiatry Association all the way up to 1973?

(April 16, 2016 at 7:05 pm)Esquilax Wrote: If something is an inherent biological drive for a person, and that drive would cause harm to another, then why wouldn't a certain level of empathy be engendered? I get that it's fundamentally icky, but if it's not something they have any control over then they've been placed in a situation beyond their control that stacks the social deck against them incredibly. Now, given the inherent harm in actually obeying that drive, we should still have an ironclad expectation that they not just go along with what they want, and that they do deny themselves, but you can abhor the action while still recognizing that the desire may not be something actively under their control.

If a male minor age 14 is interested in sex with a 22 year old female, how is that damaging?

Quote:In my country, in order to get gender reassignment surgery, you have to have a doctor diagnose you with gender dysphoria. Which is a mental disorder where you feel that you are the wrong gender to what your genes and anatomy otherwise indicate. So if this is a disorder, shouldn't we be trying to correct it? That would mean trying to harmonize the mind with physical reality. As far as I know, gender dysphoria is the only condition where the treatment is to go with the disease rather than to fight it. Doesn't sound like good medicine to me.

(April 16, 2016 at 7:05 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Why are you presuming that transitioning is not a cure? The symptoms go away, the underlying problem is addressed and the patient incurs no adverse affects:

Really??? Then how come the massive suicide rate among transgendered people?

"The prevalence of suicide attempts among respondents to the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and National Center for Transgender Equality, is 41 percent, which vastly exceeds the 4.6 percent of the overall U.S. population who report a lifetime" UCLA School of Law.

With a suicide rate 10 times higher than average, the "treatment" is clearly an abject failure.

(April 18, 2016 at 7:23 pm)AJW333 Wrote: With a suicide rate 10 times higher than average, the "treatment" is clearly an abject failure.

Right now it's talking out of the ass, lacking some serious source, but I bite. Might it be discrimination?