i don't have a convincing reason for not believing in god. If god exist, great. If god doesn't exist, great. I remain neutral, neither for nor against the idea of a god. It doesn't have any impact on me. For me its religion that i strongly disbelieve. I find it very limiting, manipulative, and ignorant to reality. Religion condemns the authentic nature of man. Creating a division within themselves and against others which causes conflict within and without. Using god, Jesus, and others as a means to control people.

My original reason for not believing in the Judeo-christian god is that the Bible sounded like fiction. Even to my preschool ears talking snakes, parting seas, men fooled into believing one son is the other by fur skins, nasty children devoured by bears, youngest favorite sons making good in Egypt, which god can light his own offering pyre contests, world wide floods with floating zoos, people turned into salt, water into wine, making pigs crazy is the stuff of fiction. Now I make finer distinctions, and consider religious scripture to be a genre unto themselves, but not a factually accurate genre. Absent cobororating evidence, I simply cannot believe it.

As to a god of any sort, I see no empirical evidence of one, and find nothing convincing about the nonempirical arguments for one.

(May 9, 2016 at 7:10 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: As a kid, I loved to read Norse and Irish mythologies.  As much as I enjoyed the stories, I knew - on a gut level - that they weren't true.  There was no Thor, no Loki, no Cúchulainn and no Ferdiad.  But when it came to Bible stories, I was expected to believe in David, in Sampson, in Jacob, and scads of tales of mighty men, magic spells, terrifying adventures, and so forth.

So, I suppose what convinces me most, on a personal level, is that I honestly can't tell the difference between a mythic tale and a 'sacred' text.  I know that Joshua didn't destroy Jericho with trumpets in exactly the same fashion that I know Fergus of Ulster didn't cut three hills in half with his sword.

Boru

The Bible itself says that the stories are primarily entertainment and not real events.  After all, how insane do you have to be to believe in dialogue where there's just one character?

(May 9, 2016 at 8:29 pm)energizer bunny Wrote: i don't have a convincing reason for not believing in god. If god exist, great. If god doesn't exist, great. I remain neutral, neither for nor against the idea of a god. It doesn't have any impact on me. For me its religion that i strongly disbelieve. I find it very limiting, manipulative, and ignorant to reality. Religion condemns the authentic nature of man. Creating a division within themselves and against others which causes conflict within and without. Using god, Jesus, and others as a means to control people.

The purpose of religion is to get people to obey and to conform.  The local bigwigs are associated with the favorite local deity.  Consequently people must obey the local bigwig because he was appointed by the local deity to rule over the herd of dummies.  So when the local bigwig tells the herd of dummies to suit up and go charging over the hill to kill their neighbors they are doing the deity's will.  That's something they would be less inclined to do unless they are common outlaw killers and thieves.

Jeremiah 3:15 (CEV) = "Then I’ll appoint wise rulers who will obey me, and they will care for you like shepherds."

(May 9, 2016 at 4:31 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 1:37 pm)Emjay Wrote: Wow! Can I put that as a poster on my wall? 

Gee.     Sure, Emjay.  Thanks.  People post stuff here that I think is a lot more brilliant than my little list on a daily basis.  I actually keep notes.  This forum is wonderfully educational.

You're welcome   tbh I think it's all brilliant... I totally agree, this forum is wonderfully educational and if I could, I'd put it all on a poster on my wall... a nice concise bullet point list of rock solid reasons not to believe   There are just so many different angles to look at it from, and if I hadn't come to this site, I don't think I would have considered half of them.

Your kudos doesn't really mean anything if you give it to everyone responding to your thread, emjay. It does kind of the opposite, actually.

(May 9, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Because it's an idea that people talk about, not something I could directly observe in nature or even validate on a philosophical level.

There are lots of irrational ideas you could entertain and suspend reason for, if only for entertainment purposes, but this one isn't even interesting. It's disgusting on a moral level and terrifyingly banal. It makes my mind gag.

I actually do feel like compiling a list now - you know how much I love collating stats and stuff   - and that's gotta go on there: 'lot's of irrational ideas you could entertain and suspend reason for'. It's so true, that's in essence what it's all about. As to it being morally disgusting, I didn't see that until I came to this site... I'd never seen that perspective before because I'd never read the bible objectively like that before... but now I fully agree. And banal too... if there's one thing I associate most with Christian teaching it's total and utter boredom.

(May 9, 2016 at 10:04 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Your kudos doesn't really mean anything if you give it to everyone responding to your thread, emjay. It does kind of the opposite, actually.

I knew you were gonna say that... I remember you saying it in another thread, to Losty I think. It's a tough one because I do appreciate all these posts, and they all are offering different perspectives which is what I was asking for. But I am trying to reply to as many as I can, though it's taking some time, so hopefully my kudos should show in that as well as it were.

(May 9, 2016 at 10:21 pm)Emjay Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 4:41 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Because it's an idea that people talk about, not something I could directly observe in nature or even validate on a philosophical level.

There are lots of irrational ideas you could entertain and suspend reason for, if only for entertainment purposes, but this one isn't even interesting. It's disgusting on a moral level and terrifyingly banal. It makes my mind gag.

I actually do feel like compiling a list now - you know how much I love collating stats and stuff   - and that's gotta go on there: 'lot's of irrational ideas you could entertain and suspend reason for'. It's so true, that's in essence what it's all about. As to it being morally disgusting, I didn't see that until I came to this site... I'd never seen that perspective before because I'd never read the bible objectively like that before... but now I fully agree. And banal too... if there's one thing I associate most with Christian teaching it's total and utter boredom.

Yeah, this just tells me you want to be nice so much you'll bend over backwards to show it to me. Not feeling the genuinity, just a touch of subtle manipulation and condescension.

(May 9, 2016 at 10:25 pm)Emjay Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 10:04 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Your kudos doesn't really mean anything if you give it to everyone responding to your thread, emjay. It does kind of the opposite, actually.

I knew you were gonna say that... I remember you saying it in another thread, to Losty I think. It's a tough one because I do appreciate all these posts, and they all are offering different perspectives which is what I was asking for. But I am trying to reply to as many as I can, though it's taking some time, so hopefully my kudos should show in that as well as it were.

What interests me, is why the act? You must be really arogant to suddenly behave like you're better than everyone else, so I wonder what made you think that.