(May 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 4:47 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Yeah, we've noticed that pattern with you. Except I routinely have Bible discussions (friendly ones) with other Christians, including Seminary-trained pastors, and all of them remark about how well I know the Bible. 

In other words, it's you, not me.

 I've found many pastors lacking in an understanding of the scriptures. I'm not saying that I'm an expert, I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me and since you do not believe the Holy Spirit is real then you have never had his guidance. That means you have only a historical understanding of the Bible. The Bible is a spiritual guide to life for those who believe in Christ.

GC

I, too, have found that many pastors (almost always fundamentalists) lack an understanding of the scriptures, as they simply read the words that are there now, and fail to employ any serious scholarly methods of understanding how the works came to be that way, the historicity and cultural influences of the times in which they are written, or the linguistic shifts that show us what was edited and when.

However, I don't speak to anyone on the subject unless they've done the research to understand the broader viewpoint. If you're trying to suggest I eschew my conversations with serious scholars who happen to be pastors and start talking to pastors who go by tradition and feels, you're barking up the wrong tree.

I would love one theist, any theist, to tell me something they have "learnt" from god that they couldn't have easily learnt another way.

I'd even settle for something interesting that god has told them. All god ever seems to say is, "I agree with you about everything."

For someone who knows everything, he sure comes off as an ignorant sycophant.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:01 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm)Godschild Wrote:  I've found many pastors lacking in an understanding of the scriptures. I'm not saying that I'm an expert, I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me and since you do not believe the Holy Spirit is real then you have never had his guidance. That means you have only a historical understanding of the Bible. The Bible is a spiritual guide to life for those who believe in Christ.

GC

I, too, have found that many pastors (almost always fundamentalists) lack an understanding of the scriptures, as they simply read the words that are there now, and fail to employ any serious scholarly methods of understanding how the works came to be that way, the historicity and cultural influences of the times in which they are written, or the linguistic shifts that show us what was edited and when.

However, I don't speak to anyone on the subject unless they've done the research to understand the broader viewpoint. If you're trying to suggest I eschew my conversations with serious scholars who happen to be pastors and start talking to pastors who go by tradition and feels, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 I'm saying that they were either being nice to you in their statement to you or they are those who deny much of what the scriptures say, until you can understand why the Bible was written and how the men who wrote it were inspired by God, well.... you're just backing up. I study with those who research continually even the new things that come to light, I'm, actually we, are very concerned about the truth found in the scriptures, unlike you.

GC

Whatever you say, True Christian™.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:08 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:01 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I, too, have found that many pastors (almost always fundamentalists) lack an understanding of the scriptures, as they simply read the words that are there now, and fail to employ any serious scholarly methods of understanding how the works came to be that way, the historicity and cultural influences of the times in which they are written, or the linguistic shifts that show us what was edited and when.

However, I don't speak to anyone on the subject unless they've done the research to understand the broader viewpoint. If you're trying to suggest I eschew my conversations with serious scholars who happen to be pastors and start talking to pastors who go by tradition and feels, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 I'm saying that they were either being nice to you in their statement to you or they are those who deny much of what the scriptures say, until you can understand why the Bible was written and how the men who wrote it were inspired by God, well.... you're just backing up. I study with those who research continually even the new things that come to light, I'm, actually we, are very concerned about the truth found in the scriptures, unlike you.

GC

You do realize that you have about as much credibility here as Joseph Smith, right?

Back to the OP. I don't defend YECists or literalists. Likewise, the best of you shouldn't defend immature straw man objections.

The atheist presented a comic book caricature of Heaven and God's Sovereignty. Then a religious commentator revealed that the atheist had a childish understanding of theology. And AF atheists defend the cardboard cut-out objections of an obviously immature compatriot. In this specific case, if some of you guys truly think the atheist poster has a legitimate point I feel very very sorry for you.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:15 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Back to the OP. I don't defend YECists or literalists. Likewise, the best of you shouldn't defend immature straw man objections.

The atheist presented a comic book caricature of Heaven and God's Sovereignty. Then a religious commentator revealed that the atheist had a childish understanding of theology. And AF atheists defend the cardboard cut-out objections of an obviously immature compatriot. In this specific case, if some of you guys truly think the atheist poster has a legitimate point I feel very very sorry for you.

The OP? Didn't read it. I just follow the dung trail. It's how I find GC every time. 

(May 10, 2016 at 1:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: I would love one theist, any theist, to tell me something they have "learnt" from god that they couldn't have easily learnt another way.

Jesus loves me this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak but He is strong.

(May 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(May 9, 2016 at 4:47 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Yeah, we've noticed that pattern with you. Except I routinely have Bible discussions (friendly ones) with other Christians, including Seminary-trained pastors, and all of them remark about how well I know the Bible. 

In other words, it's you, not me.

 I've found many pastors lacking in an understanding of the scriptures. I'm not saying that I'm an expert, I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me and since you do not believe the Holy Spirit is real then you have never had his guidance. That means you have only a historical understanding of the Bible. The Bible is a spiritual guide to life for those who believe in Christ.

GC

Isn't it interesting how many pastors claim that they have the "holy spirit" guiding them, so therefore they have the right interpretation - and then they point at the other pastors who have the "holy spirit" guiding them as well, but they have the wrong interpretation.   I mean, just in modern mainline Protestantism, you have:
Lutheran / Anglican / Calvinist / Continental or American Reformed / Presbyterian / Congregational / Anabaptist / Free Evangelical / Methodist / Holiness / Baptist / Pentecostal / Charismatic and Neo-Charismatic / Christ Apostolic / Zion Christian / Quaker / Adventist / Family International 
   and there are dozens of splits in each of these sects, and I know I didn't even begin to name all of them . . . all split from each other because one group who had the "holy spirit" disagreed with another group who had the "holy spirit".  

I was baptized Southern Baptist and then raised Church of God Holiness.  You should have heard the trash talk from the pulpit in the "Holiness" church about all of the other deluded "so-called Christians" who did not follow the scriptures properly.  

And they all claimed to be guided by the "holy spirit".  How interesting.  Apparently the "holy spirit" doesn't understand the wholly babble either.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:18 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:05 pm)robvalue Wrote: I would love one theist, any theist, to tell me something they have "learnt" from god that they couldn't have easily learnt another way.

Jesus loves me this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak but He is strong.

Jesus loves me, this I know
Group psychosis tells me so
Little minds to him belong
Brainwash early, can't go wrong

Jesus loves me, what a thrill
to surrender thought and will
to a demon in the sky
his own child did crucify

Jesus loves me, and they say
If I pray hard ev'ry day
I won't have to scream in hell
Heaven is where I will dwell