Quote:Maybe the idols are a representation of a single god because I've heard some people say that Hinduism originally started off as a monotheistic religion.

The mythological roots of Hinduism (as well as the Abrahamic faiths) are probably prehistoric.


I did not say or mean to imply your observation about Hindu idols is any way wrong,merely simplistic and ignorant.

Hinduism is arguably the most eclectic and inclusive religion on the planet.A Hindu may be a polytheist,believing their idols and linghams are literally divine. Many are monotheists, believing that all Xmillion Hindu gods are simply reflections of aspects of the one god, Brahma. Some are atheists,in the same way many Buddhists are atheists, rejecting the existence of all gods.

Do read the Gita,lest you fear your Muslim faith is too weak to cope with different ideas.

(February 23, 2011 at 9:27 pm)padraic Wrote: Do read the Gita, lest you fear your Muslim faith is too weak to cope with different ideas.

Yeah, I'll check it out today.

I'm not afraid that my faith will get weaker though. If I was afraid, then, I wouldn't have come to an atheist forum since I know that everyone is going to challenge my faith.

Now those Muslim posters on this board can make yours. What evidence or arguments does Islam have to support it?
Peace be upon you. you ask what evidence do Muslims have about the truthfulness of their religion. I invite every one on this forum to check this:


** Link Removed **

What? I was bored.

(April 14, 2011 at 6:33 pm)sarah2011 Wrote: ** Link Removed **

Well that's unfortunate. I was so looking forward to being underwhelmed by another apologetic site.

Dear Mr question asker....

forget everything about what you think you know about islam, even most of what you heard from muslims...and especially all the hate mongoring comments cus their all just based on emotions conjured up by tabloid newspapers, the parrots just repeast what they here and have no real knowledge about islam.

The core of islam is 1 god, he has no partners. Thats what make you muslim. Doesnt matter which particulatr religious group you belong to, as long as you believe in a sole creator, and you ask forgiveness - since sinning and disobediance is in human nature.
Being a muslim isnt just a religion its an idea - of one god.

its the freedom of thought and expression that allows for intelligence and innovation, but also allows for jealosy and competition (which can be good or bad). Everything has opposite in nature....cus of this is why we must ask for forgiveness.

If you read quraan without any prejudice you will see the quraan does NOT say
'only muslims to go heaven',
'all non muslims goto hell',
and it certainly doesn't say 'kill the jews/pagans'

ie one reference in the quraan refers to 'abrahams religion is the purest of all religions'. We all know what his religion was, the unseen god, not in idle format, and prayer, its a very simple formula. Every mans religion is his own.

QURAAAN VERSES
2:256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.

3:113. Not all of them are alike: Of the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK are a portion that stand (For the right): They are steadfast in their prayers at night, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. Their rewards will be just.

3:199. And there are, certainly, among the PEOPLE OF THE BOOK, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, praying to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account.

NOTE: people of the book refers to anyone that believes in one god, jews, christians, muslims, zorastarians, etc

islam doesnt say god only loves muslims, but islam and the quraan was just another one of hundreds of thousands of messages sent to man - just it was the last.

With regards to the so called hate verses and murder murder death death kill verses in the quraan, just do you self a favour and read the full chaptor of the verses poeple quote you and anyone that can think for themselves can see how their quotes are manipulated, words replaced, worlds missing, half stories told etc...theyll miss out stuff like.....

9:6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

9:4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.

9:7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

Jesus

he was a prophet, not the literal son of god, his message was true but was distorted greatly by the romans when they adopted christianity and made their own version of the bible, and made it punishable by death to own a proper copy. Same as every other religious tecture which was re-written by man and corrupted.

Thats why the quraan was send as gods direct final message, not muhammed words, jesus and moses are spoken of all the way through the quraan, muhammeds name is barely mentioned. The miracles differed from previous miracles of dead to life, water to wine etc etc. these miracles are in the book itself, for eternity.

Proof it is gods word?!?!?

science;
Speed of light - quraan says angels, made from light, travel the same distance in one day as the moon travels in 1000 years (12,000 lunar orbits), answer = 299,999.457m/s.
Is that number familiar?
And when you read the pathetic rebuttals to that claim that use '24', as the number of hours in a day, thats why their answers differ. you need to be more precise, ask a physicist if thats a valid calculation using 24. google 'speed of light quraan' for full break down of calcs...

[url]http://www.speed-light.info/angels_speed_of_light.htm[url]
see if that works...

Another miracle people are too easy to dismiss is the miracle of memory, The Quraan claimed, in order to protect its words from human corruption and destruction, this book will be in human memory, unchanged until the end of time. A very bold claim indeed.

And in every mosque theres at least 5-10 guys that would have been able to memorisse the quraan, and these guys are not genuis's, they could be grade d/e students at anything else, but when they try to memorise the quraan, it stays in their memory.

its not a small feat to be able to memorise a book of that scale, and there would have been hundreds of thousands of people that had done it, i know people that have done it, i even tried it myself to see if i was capable of it. With only 1-2hours a day, after 3 weeks i was able to memorise about 30% of the quraan, it was effortless, i was 9yrs old, i didnt even know what the words meant, its like memorising Finnish for you, if i gave you a poetry book in Finnish could you ever memorise it?

More tomorrow my days at work finished.....

Why is it that the Islamic spammers tend to be more aggrivating than the Christian ones?

(April 19, 2011 at 1:10 pm)alemcodon Wrote: all the hate mongoring comments cus their all just based on emotions conjured up by tabloid newspapers, the parrots just repeast what they here and have no real knowledge about islam.

not true, you jump to conclusions that because someone ridicules your religion you attribute their stance to the media? hahaha man that is poor

Quote:The core of islam is 1 god, he has no partners. Thats what make you muslim. Doesnt matter which particulatr religious group you belong to, as long as you believe in a sole creator, and you ask forgiveness - since sinning and disobediance is in human nature.
Being a muslim isnt just a religion its an idea - of one god.
its the freedom of thought and expression that allows for intelligence and innovation, but also allows for jealosy and competition (which can be good or bad). Everything has opposite in nature....cus of this is why we must ask for forgiveness.

mindless jibberish, nothing here has any clear reasoning. all of what you are stating is opinion, nothing which is going to persuade someone to be muslim.
here's question for you, why do you think we should ask for any forgiveness at all? surely you acknowledge that 'god' made us all who we are. surely then he created people to be homosexual? did he not give them these homosexual preferences? and if he did then why? he is dooming them to 'hell' before they are even born.
ahh but i bet you'll say they have a choice? right?
god also had a choice. NOT TO MAKE THEM FUCKING GAY

Quote:If you read quraan without any prejudice you will see the quraan does NOT say
'only muslims to go heaven',
'all non muslims goto hell',
and it certainly doesn't say 'kill the jews/pagans'

hahaha couldn't be farther from the truth. have you even read your own book? it's the most vile and hate filled sribblings ever created. it refers to christians as pigs and jews as monkeys (or maybe the other way around can't remember). can you explain then what the purpose of a jihad is?

Quote:QURAAAN VERSES
BULLSHIT etc..........

With regards to the so called hate verses and murder murder death death kill verses in the quraan, just do you self a favour and read the full chaptor of the verses poeple quote you and anyone that can think for themselves can see how their quotes are manipulated, words replaced, worlds missing, half stories told etc...theyll miss out stuff like.....

haha if i had a pound for everytime i've heard this line. lemme guess you're gonna tell us all to learn arabic to 'truly understand what the quran is saying'. that's fucking bullshit. i've never heard a christian say we must all learn hebrew or ancient greek to understand the bible so how should the quran be any different?
and even if you accept that the translations are correct, then you cannot dare claim any of the verses are taken out of context. i have read several verses in the quran and directly read the chapter's they were in. they are vile stories told to ensure the reader fears the 'almighty allah' and spreads hate at every sentence.

Quote:Jesus

he was a prophet, not the literal son of god, his message was true but was distorted greatly by the romans when they adopted christianity and made their own version of the bible, and made it punishable by death to own a proper copy. Same as every other religious tecture which was re-written by man and corrupted.

so lemme guess, you pick and choose which parts of jesus's message you want to listen to. so when jesus said he is the son of god (which you have said must be true because his message was true? correct?) then why do you not take his word as final?
and btw, the romans did no such thing as distorting the bible. i'd like to see any evidence whatsoever for this ridiculous claim.
oh one more thing, change 're-written by man' to simply 'written by man'

Quote:Proof it is gods word?!?!?

science;

if you're book is so correct on all things science, then where the fuck is the mention of evolution.
i think you'd be very wise as well to consider even daring to contest whether evolution is correct or not. seen as it's already fucking proven.

Quote:

---

Another miracle people are too easy to dismiss is the miracle of memory, The Quraan claimed, in order to protect its words from human corruption and destruction, this book will be in human memory, unchanged until the end of time. A very bold claim indeed.

---

And in every mosque theres at least 5-10 guys that would have been able to memorisse the quraan, and these guys are not genuis's, they could be grade d/e students at anything else, but when they try to memorise the quraan, it stays in their memory.

---

its not a small feat to be able to memorise a book of that scale, and there would have been hundreds of thousands of people that had done it, i know people that have done it, i even tried it myself to see if i was capable of it. With only 1-2hours a day, after 3 weeks i was able to memorise about 30% of the quraan, it was effortless, i was 9yrs old, i didnt even know what the words meant, its like memorising Finnish for you, if i gave you a poetry book in Finnish could you ever memorise it?

---

what in the fucking fuck is the relevance of this. how the FUCK do you think you can convert anyone with this bullshit?
so fucking what if they can memorise the quran, that doesn't make it true in the slightest! you're logic is overwhelmingly retarded. i am wondering why i am even wasting my time posting this response to a fucktard like you.

Quote:More tomorrow my days at work finished.....

gee fuck i hope not

(April 19, 2011 at 1:19 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

Why is it that the Islamic spammers tend to be more aggrivating than the Christian ones?

Post #21 at the top.

Ryft-darling found the only way to deal with them. It's worth the read, promise.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-3608-page-3.html

1. Remember that Jesus was living at a time when the Roman were the rulers of Europe. These Romans rulers did what rulers do... they manipulate and rewrite history. Jesus introduced a monotheistic religion for the general public and issued the bible. Supposed "historical documents" is relative to what? Obviously the roman powers at the time will do anything to kill off the christian religion. This is why its so hard to find accurate historical accounts of Jesus.

2. It wasn't some guy spreading his own ideas.... it was the continuation of spreading a religion based on monotheistic principles. This religion believes that the monotheistic message has been spread to every culture/nation on the planet. Majority of these cultures/nations now follow religions that in its core follow a monotheistic principle.

(December 28, 2010 at 4:20 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Let's pretend that I've decided I need religion in my life. I've decided to choose between Christianity and Islam. The Christians have made their sales pitch to me. Now those Muslim posters on this board can make yours. What evidence or arguments does Islam have to support it?

1. What seems to set Islam apart from Christianity is the question of what Jesus was (prophet or divine intercessor). The Christians have made their case to me which includes:

* Supposed "eye witness accounts"
* Supposed "historical documents"
* A church established by the apostles and disciples that knew Jesus or lived in his lifetime.

2. What Islam seems to have is:

* Some guy who came along several hundred years later, who lived in a different country, who claims that he knows what Jesus really said and taught better than the people he heard about Jesus from, the very people who he claims got it all wrong.

Special pleading taken to a whole new level.

Now I'm not endorsing Christianity by a long shot here. I've torn apart all the supposed "evidence" for Christianity but at least they give me a case to tear apart. I can at least understand how the unwary or uninformed might get taken in by the slick packaging. Islam seems to have no substance whatsoever except for "some guy says 'nuh-uh'"

What would be your sales pitch to convince me that Muhammad knew Jesus better than the Christians?