(May 21, 2016 at 12:54 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Here is the thing about education:  one only truly retains knowledge of that which one is interested in learning.

It is one of the reasons why Europe has this curriculum set up where you only study for the career you want.  There is none of the bullshit where you have to take unnecessary classes that merely weigh you down intellectually and veritably sucks your motivation.

Various European cirriculums suck too. I don't think a perfect one has even existed yet. Maybe one day.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html

Quote:Why Americans can’t write

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/29...64984.html

Quote:Shockingly Few Students Are Proficient In U.S. History

Here's two more subjects to dismiss in your so far otherwise pointless exercise to dispute what study after study has shown.  You don't like geography.  You don't like math.  What about history?  How about smart people who can't write to save their lives?  How do you know they are so smart?  Do they tell you?

Why don't you tell me what you value so highly?

(May 21, 2016 at 12:54 am)Maelstrom Wrote: Here is the thing about education:  one only truly retains knowledge of that which one is interested in learning.

It is one of the reasons why Europe has this curriculum set up where you only study for the career you want.  There is none of the bullshit where you have to take unnecessary classes that merely weigh you down intellectually and veritably sucks your motivation.

I agree with this.

I think there should be some base education that everyone needs to function. This would obviously include reading and writing ability and arithmetic. A person should know what science is (the process) and should have a grounding in logic and critical thinking. These are universally applicable skills and knowledge which would handicap a person if they were deficient. Beyond those basics though, it should be a choice. It's a case of, "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him/her drink."

We all have a finite ability to store knowledge. It can certainly be argued that stored knowledge of the relative positions of various sovereign states on Earth is a waste of such finite space as that knowledge can be easily obtained as needed.

I cannot recite word-for-word the First Amendment of the United States Constitution - a thing that I personally consider to be of the utmost importance and deeply agree with. But I can recite word-for-word most of the entire dialog for the movie Spaceballs. That's pretty fucked-up when you think about it. The relevance of the First Amendment is orders of magnitude more important to any American's life than Tim Russ holding a giant afro comb proclaiming, "We haven't found shit!" But Spaceballs makes me smile. My brain involuntarily allocates more memory space for that than it does for the First Amendment. We have to make some allowances for how we are wired. That's a human thing, not an American thing.

(May 21, 2016 at 1:50 am)AFTT47 Wrote: I agree with this.

I think there should be some base education that everyone needs to function. This would obviously include reading and writing ability and arithmetic. A person should know what science is (the process) and should have a grounding in logic and critical thinking. These are universally applicable skills and knowledge which would handicap a person if they were deficient. Beyond those basics though, it should be a choice. It's a case of, "You can lead a horse to the water but you can't make him/her drink."

We all have a finite ability to store knowledge. It can certainly be argued that stored knowledge of the relative positions of various sovereign states on Earth is a waste of such finite space as that knowledge can be easily obtained as needed.

I cannot recite word-for-word the First Amendment of the United States Constitution - a thing that I personally consider to be of the utmost importance and deeply agree with. But I can recite word-for-word most of the entire dialog for the movie Spaceballs. That's pretty fucked-up when you think about it. The relevance of the First Amendment is orders of magnitude more important to any American's life than Tim Russ holding a giant afro comb proclaiming, "We haven't found shit!" But Spaceballs makes me smile. My brain involuntarily allocates more memory space for that than it does for the First Amendment. We have to make some allowances for how we are wired. That's a human thing, not an American thing.

You just stated everything with which I agree. I just didn't have the patience to state it myself.

Education in America has gone the route of impossible.

At least Europe is still ahead of the game in every respect in comparison to America.

Quote:Here's two more subjects to dismiss in your so far otherwise pointless exercise to dispute what study after study has shown.

I'm not too concerned with what studies says. I can think for myself and i have my own personal experience to go by. And i've met many who are very knowledgeable and can't apply it to their life. Like a person who has more knowledge than me in fitness and nutrients and remains out of shape. 

Quote:You don't like geography.  You don't like math.  What about history?

I like geography, i like math but i don't like history much. Its best not to assume what i do or don't like. 

Quote:How about smart people who can't write to save their lives?

I'm pretty sure there a few of them particularly in 3rd world countries where using your intelligence to provide and survive is of main concern and education is limited. 

Quote:How do you know they are so smart?  Do they tell you?

Observing. Particularly how one handles drama and conflict in their lives. 

Quote:Why don't you tell me what you value so highly?

Well i wouldn't want this thread to be about me and my values. Though if your interested perhaps you can create a separate thread for it. Maybe i'll answer there.  

And yet still they for force us to watch their crappy cartoon version of anime.

(May 21, 2016 at 12:12 am)energizer bunny Wrote:

(May 20, 2016 at 11:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I'm more inclined to agree with Madison.

Agree with whomever you wish. Though i'm not really sure what that was to do with anything i typed. 

So do you think intelligence should only be based on repeating like a parrot what has been taught to you? I always thought one should inquire much further than that and not limit themselves.

I look at intelligence as being able to synthesize the information at one's possession into a cogent and coherent outlook. Of course one could interrupt a discussion with repeated requests to google this or that tidbit, but firstly that would make for a laborious chat, and secondly -- and more importantly -- how would one vet that information in real-time?

There's a lot to be said for having a large base of knowledge stored between one's ears. It doesn't assure intelligence, but it surely supports and helps develop it.

(May 21, 2016 at 1:32 am)Minimalist Wrote: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...story.html

Quote:Why Americans can’t write

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/29...64984.html

Quote:Shockingly Few Students Are Proficient In U.S. History

Here's two more subjects to dismiss in your so far otherwise pointless exercise to dispute what study after study has shown.  You don't like geography.  You don't like math.  What about history?  How about smart people who can't write to save their lives?  How do you know they are so smart?  Do they tell you?

Why don't you tell me what you value so highly?

Me: The founding fathers were deists.

Stupid guy on youtube: THEY WERE CHRISTIANS

Me: *qoutes founding fathers*

Stupid guy on youtube: WERE A CHRISTIAN NATION

Me: "provides evidence to the contrary*

It's not that people are stupid they are just not well informed or educated on that matter. Sadly US history in 
Texas is so skewed and wrong and well history for that matter really needs to be pushed into public television.
More or less we should start worrying about education because if people like that exist... history will repeat itself 
that's not good. People should be educated properly in school not piss poorly.

(May 21, 2016 at 5:15 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(May 21, 2016 at 12:12 am)energizer bunny Wrote: Agree with whomever you wish. Though i'm not really sure what that was to do with anything i typed. 

So do you think intelligence should only be based on repeating like a parrot what has been taught to you? I always thought one should inquire much further than that and not limit themselves.

I look at intelligence as being able to synthesize the information at one's possession into a cogent and coherent outlook. Of course one could interrupt a discussion with repeated requests to google this or that tidbit, but firstly that would make for a laborious chat, and secondly -- and more importantly -- how would one vet that information in real-time?

There's a lot to be said for having a large base of knowledge stored between one's ears. It doesn't assure intelligence, but it surely supports and helps develop it.

Well yeah, if a person can use that knowledge to grow as a person and apply it in real life situations then absolutely. Though people use their intelligence differently. A person may not be good at geography but their only claim to knowledge is science and math and they use that knowledge to cure the sick. That is more useful than a person who is knowledgeable on many things but never applying it.

Note the date on this story.  This issue is not news.  We now have two generations of workers who industry says can't meet the requirements of the jobs they have.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1...6660&hl=en

What has happened, with the explosion of computer technology since 1997 is that the situation has gotten far worse.