(May 27, 2016 at 4:29 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(May 27, 2016 at 3:43 am)Blueyedlion Wrote: Because, god is omni-present, and omni-being and omni-everywhere, so even in absence it’s there for there is no such thing as true absence.

So i heard that recently and i would like to hear from atheists here what you all think of this statement.

Thanks

Because God is absent, nonexistent, and nowhere, so even in presence it's not there for there is no such thing as a nonexistent thing being present.

So even with complete faith in God you still totally don't believe in God.  Which is good for you.

I like to hear from theists what you all think of this statement.

Thanks.

Well hold on there, when somebody describes having an experience with or of god, that is to be a feeling and knowing from the heart and mind of complete oneness of one's self with their environment. That is also what's called enlightenment. So when you're describing these properties of god as non-existing, as absent, what you need to really understand is the detachment between man and the surrounding world he lives in, and how that leads to ego.

And so, the whole point of spirituality is to realize and break out of the illusion that we are separate and that in reality we are all one. So when i say, "in absence it’s there for there is no such thing as true absence." that's saying, in the absence of your awareness of your connection to your world around you, the universe or god is still there. You're just not aware of it because in the limitation of the human experience, we appear to me removed. And yet there is no such thing as you not being apart of the universe in any way, mentally, physically, or emotionally. Everything literately connects and that's science too - entanglement.

P.O.E.

Even if you chose not to eat an ice cream cone, you are actually eating an ice cream cone.

(May 27, 2016 at 6:10 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Well for starters, you need to prove that god is Omnipresent.  Without that, your statement is quite meaningless.  You've attributed something to this god in order to prove that he exists.  You can't do that.  You must first prove that this attribute exists.  I don't believe the bible states God is omnipresent, but even if it did -- you'd still have to prove that the bible is a reliable source.  And then you'd have to prove that it's a reliable source about that piece of information as well.  Without that, anyone could attribute anything to anything so long as they had a book backing them up.

Actually, since i'm of the opinion god is what atheists recognize as simply the universe but with an extra feature of a collective mind of all that is.

"You must first prove that this attribute exists" What is always present, the universe. tick.

" I don't believe the bible states God is omnipresent, but even if it did -- you'd still have to prove that the bible is a reliable source." This is getting a tad bit annoying, i'm not affiliating my belief of god with the bible god. I'm not talking about that. I know it's hard to remove your minds from Christianity as the only god to argue about to which any time god is mentioned, you automatically think, Jesus, Christianity, bible. Not on this thread, not with me. Christianity's all nonsense to me as much you as you.

(May 28, 2016 at 10:21 pm)ignoramus Wrote: God is love!
God is pleasure!

I love backing out a long long one! It gives me pleasure!
Therefore God is ..….... wait, I need to roll it in glitter first, don't I?

You're a better man than I Igno.  You're really trying to create some rapport, aren't you.  Gawd bless.

This thread gave me cancer.

(May 29, 2016 at 12:26 am)Whateverist the White Wrote:

(May 28, 2016 at 10:21 pm)ignoramus Wrote: God is love!
God is pleasure!

I love backing out a long long one! It gives me pleasure!
Therefore God is ..….... wait, I need to roll it in glitter first, don't I?

You're a better man than I Igno.  You're really trying to create some rapport, aren't you.  Gawd bless.

Whatev, you know where I'm coming from. Some people just need to hear it...
You can't talk, you believe in Dogs too!

(May 28, 2016 at 9:20 am)Blueyedlion Wrote: There's no such thing as a 'wrong belief' because the universe is not objective, only collective based on the contribution of subjective experience. So what ever you do in life whether it's intimate such as how you conduct yourself towards others in a loving relationship, or how you simply treat yourself, there is no 'wrong' approach, just different ones, because no matter what, you had to go through that experience to learn something from it. There was something to gain by going through it. So everything has value. Everything no matter what has substance depending on the individual.

quip wrote: The collective might and quite often does, disagree with the subjective. As such, there can be a 'wrong belief' ...take 'witch hunts', 'inquisitions' and ISIS as collectively contributed examples.

That's very misunderstood in your explanation. In fact, every single person will in most cases disagree with everyone and anyone else on most things - you see one shade of grey, someone else sees a slightly different shade. You can never see the variation anybody else sees because everyone has a different subjective perspective. Otherwise according to you everyone's wrong against everyone else? No body can speak for another persons experience. What is much more logical, is what is right and wrong is entirely up to you and no one else. The function of society is based on a misplaced presumption that if we allow each other to create an authority over another, this then gives us some sort of power to know whats what collectively, that somehow the amalgamation of many perspectives can have the slightest insight on yours, even though they never experienced yours. All this does is, this gives your own power of your own experience over to another. By living under the rule of anyone else, judging any single one of your actions, is to give up your ability to judge for yourself. You're essentially giving up your power of who you are to another.

Figure that one out

When you are challenged by the weight of any form of cultural belief that doesnt sit right with you, which can range from the size of family unit, to a neighborhood, to a town, city, state, nation. Those are a collective built beliefs based purely from those only that cultivated that belief system. If you didnt have a hand in the formation of them, they are not your beliefs. So those beliefs will not agree with yours, simple as that. Those cultural beliefs aren't wrong because you don't agree with them, they're just not for you. As yours aren't for them - because you weren't there in that collective perspective of culture to experience them, to relate to them.

And so you can see no opinion is really right or wrong, only your opinion you to decide for yourself. And to go further, there even isnt such a thing as right or wrong, there's just different variations of choice that after being made, may turn out in a way that is either less agreeable then you'd like or as agreeable. And this is where we can talk about maturity, when what comes your way in every aspect of life is actually beneficial to you no matter how dire they may seem, because through every experience there is something to be gained in a learning opportunity of who you are in the reaction of how you dealt with the experience.

As you mature, you realize, that even if the experience you desired to be agreeable with you did not end up that way, you still learnt something about who you are regardless, and that in turn, allows you to shed some of your ego, because then you can apply any opportunity that presents itself to you, whether you like it or not as an opportunity for growth.

Quote:witch hunts', 'inquisitions' and ISIS

You know what's just as 'bad'? in Australia where i'm from, there is a law that allows the culling of millions of kangaroos, because a couple of people decided we as humans know what the healthy number should be according to us. And anything outside of what works for us, is dysfunctional. Because apparently, we knew the entire population of kangaroos 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 10,000, 1,000,000. So we know what is normal population size. BS.

That in at least my mind, is just as 'bad' as any human mass deaths since they've been slaughtered for no actual reason. But humans like to make the human experience more important than everything else because of some egotistical top of the food chain mindset. Either way, neither is wrong or right. We kill each other, we kill animals, they kill us, and they kill each other. Each one serving their role in life.

Are orca's wrong in tossing seals playfully to eachother after catching it, where they're flipping it into air while its bleeding to death with bite marks and gashes throughout its body. No, just the behavior of life being life. And then what of flesh eating bacteria, are they in the wrong for consuming us, much less us for consuming cows? It's all just perspective. You can't judge, you're not in that relationship of experience. But then you might say, but what about death, there's no growth of self in that, you die that's it. Well if you don't believe in reincarnation, sure...

What is mind - one of many forms of energy, what is matter - one of many forms of energy. So you're saying matter can reform / reincarnate from a cow to soil to grass, but the energy of mind cant? That's your own limitation you're putting on reality, from your own limitation of what you've only experienced, or humanity has collectively only experienced.

As wise and mature as Blueyedlion wishes he was, he is still arguing his personal reality as valid over the reality in which most of us live without delusion.

A religious Aussie! That's rarer than rocking horse poo!