RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 12:06 am
There's a lot of circularity in that post.
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Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
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Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
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 RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 1:59 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 2:01 am by Blueyedlion.)
Quote:ignoramusReincarnation? Ha, I knew it! "selfish ape gene fighting for immortality again" Thats an extremely understandable position to take and one i used to side with as well. You're coming from a mindset that a reality based on the evidence of reincarnation is one that can only comes from the fear of ones own annihilation. That makes perfect sense. However, what if i told you, quantum physics destroys materialism completely. In case you're not familiar with idealism, idealism as a philosophical theory that matter is really an appearance of mind - mind being something conscious. Now we know electrons don't exist until we perceive them. That's science. The conscious action of observation actually creates reality on the sub atomic scale. What's there when you're not looking is probability waves. Probability isnt actuality, it's just probability - possibility of perception. So you can expand on this that sub atomic particles only exist when they're being looked at, otherwise they dont exist at all. So we know for a fact through science that matter is a product of our consciousness. John Wheeler (noble prize winning physicist) "No phenomenon is a physical phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon." Eugene Wigner (noble prize winning physicist) "Study of the external world leads to the conclusion that contents of consciousness is the ultimate reality." http://www.gizmag.com/quantum-theory-reality-anu/37866 http://www.nature.com/nphys/journal/v11/...s3343.html So quantum physics shows that the universe is probabilistic not deterministic, you have freewill to make choices, nothing determines your choice but you. So you are responsible for your actions entirely. The universe is based on conscious decision  RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 2:03 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 2:03 am by Silver.)
There is this guy at work who basically made the same comment as the OP in this thread, though his statement was more coherent.
He stated, Even if you don't believe, you're still believing that you don't believe.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter  RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 2:35 am
(May 27, 2016 at 6:44 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:(May 27, 2016 at 6:25 am)Blueyedlion Wrote: Since it's impossible to disbelieve, the reason i'm hoping to influence you, is to make you aware of it. Because once you are aware of it, there's a vast amount more the universe has to offer once you believe. Once you're open to the faith as well. I've experienced it myself. Since you already believe, making it known to you is helpful then wouldn't it be? Well, it does think at some level - us. RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 2:36 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 2:40 am by Excited Penguin.)
You sound like a very smart person, OP. I like you. Please tell me some more about God. Thanks.
I love how you're flying under the radar. You really are great at what you do and you must be having a ton of fun, right?  RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 3:14 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 3:19 am by robvalue.)
(May 28, 2016 at 2:03 am)Maelstrom Wrote: There is this guy at work who basically made the same comment as the OP in this thread, though his statement was more coherent. Yeah, but that's bollocks (what that guy said). You know you don't believe. To suggest otherwise is to say you aren't properly aware of your own beliefs. If you don't know what your beliefs are at any given time, you don't know anything so you may as well dispense with the word "know". Of course, your beliefs may change from day to day or even second to second. But you still know what they are, even if they are mental delusions and you aren't aware they are delusions. (Of course, you may "not know what to believe", but this is a perfectly valid default position of neither accepting nor rejecting a proposition, as in weak atheism.) You also get into a circular situation where you believe you don't believe; but since you don't know what your beliefs are, you only believe you believe you don't believe... etc. Belief (as opposed to knowledge) is more suitable to a situation where you don't have direct access to the information. You could technically argue that you only have beliefs about your beliefs, but that's taking things so far that you're entering solipsism and such. You certainly can't come back to reality to make any coherent claim following such a statement, if you've burnt all your fuel. Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 4:46 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 4:55 am by Blueyedlion.)
(May 27, 2016 at 9:58 am)Quote:Ben Davis Wrote: I didnt say im arguing on behalf of a friend, you read me wrong. I said i heard the phrase from a friend. So im putting that here to see what you guys think of it. Quote:I challenge you to find one single example of any of the attributes of consciousness being demonstrated by something without a brain. Easy done - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Vck2iPvBs Quote: whether you belief in god or not, you're still correct in being an athiest or jew or what ever because when you die, you wake up to it all anyway in another dimension. You mean to say i require evidence... Read book: Irreducible mind towards a physiology for the 21st century Quote: Book: Pim van Lommel - consciousness beyond life I bet a million bucks you haven't even read them yourself, or even read the literature of those debunking it. All you've done is a quick google search and thought, nah it must be crap. And if you happen to read the review of it, you only read the negative side that supports your belief without rationalizing if the debunking holds up or is simply a reaction of a materialist mind set. Quote: Or, you could expand the definition to encompass a new deeper meaning Ah yes i do, words and definitions are completely subjective. there is no such thing as a objective definition. You can have a collectively built up definition from years of tradition and culture, but within those definitions, are only relevant to the individuals involved the specific relationships between people that created that meaning. And so now you, want to some take that definition and say it will always mean the exact same thing no matter how many people experience new things accompanying the definition until the end of time. Where actually, words change based on the new meaning every day, other wise where do you think new words come from? You learn a word, experience for yourself the meaning behind it, and then if you like, put that meaning into art or science exploring it which then gives it more depth and meaning, definition then there was before. A quote i particularly like is "Search for the greater cause and not for the rule or the definition to put with it." Quote:I'll repeat: All reliable evidence regarding consciousness demonstrates that it's a by-product of brain activity. That you know of. It's good to know reality isnt limited to the experience of what one person knows. 
RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 6:26 am
(This post was last modified: May 28, 2016 at 6:29 am by robvalue.)
Edit: forget it. Wasting my time.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists. Index of useful threads and discussions Index of my best videos Quickstart guide to the forum  RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 7:32 am
You may have an astrocytoma turning portions of your brain.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
 RE: Even if you choose not to believe in god, you’re actually believing in god
May 28, 2016 at 8:36 am
![[Image: bullshit-asymmetry-principle-lightning-t...1409155873]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=image.slidesharecdn.com%2Fbulshitasymmetryprinciplelightningtalk-140826150720-phpapp01%2F95%2Fbullshit-asymmetry-principle-lightning-talk-10-638.jpg%3Fcb%3D1409155873)
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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from the UK. For your very first thread, I have to warn you, you've really picked a subject that you're not going to get a lot of distance with before you face ridicule. It's already started to happen. You say you're arguing 'on behalf of a friend' but increasingly your language is personalised. That has not scored you honesty points.
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