(June 8, 2016 at 6:05 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 10:35 pm)Godschild Wrote:  Yes they do, however we know they are schizophrenics and I do know something about it, I work with a young lady who is schizophrenic and hears voices, and most of the time I can tell she is hearing them even when she's trying to hide it. We talk about it then pray and the voices always go away.

GC

Are you sure she's a schizophrenic?   If she can't tickle herself she isn't one.

 She has been diagnosed by doctors, she takes meds for her schizophrenia, so yes through science we have our answer. 

GC

(June 8, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 7, 2016 at 11:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: Jehanne

 That infant goes to God to live eternally with Him. Baptism doesn't get you into heaven, the thief on the cross is proof of that, Jesus told him,"today you will be in paradise with me."

Yet another contradiction between Mark, where both thieves mock Jesus, and Luke, where only one does.

Who knows, who cares?!  Saint Augustine taught that the thief on the cross in Luke's Gospel was, in fact, baptized sacramentally, albeit, from a distance.

Historically speaking, however, GC, your beliefs about infant baptism are rather novel, because every Church, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Coptic practiced such from the 2nd century on and no theologian until the time of Calvin ever disputed the practice of infant Baptism.

What they practiced is not found in the scriptures anywhere, so they are wrong, simply wrong. Just like the Jews who said a person had to be circumcised to be a Christian, there is no biblical support for that either. These and other things practiced by different denominations are what they want Christianity to be, they are not true because they have no biblical supported. This is one reason we have so many denominations. What makes you think that the one thief that rebuffed the other didn't at first mock Jesus, do you know that the Holy Spirit didn't convict his heart and reveal to him the truth of Jesus. Can you think of a better witness to Christ than one on the cross.

(June 7, 2016 at 11:02 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Wrong, wrong and more wrong. The writers were not even trying to write the NT, they were trying to advise the people in the new churches, the NT was later put together, all the writers of the letters that are now the NT were dead before the 2nd century so no letters in the NT can have come from the writers. Those letter are not contradictory, they all teach the same thing, faith in Christ the Son of God, born of a virgin, died for our sins and raised from the dead is the only way to heavenly life. There was no redaction and possibly only one addition and that is not in contradiction to any thing in the NT. The Catholic Church has distorted the NT along with the Jehovah Witness Church, to make it fit to their beliefs. Yes there are differences in interpretation of some of the NT and most of that has nothing to do with how to become and live as a Christian.

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Jehanne Wrote:One wonders how you know this, GC, because your views are contrary to every single historian who has ever lived over the last 2 centuries.  Have you ever heard of the Councils of Nicaea?  How do you think that the early Church decided, among the 130 or so "inpsired" writings of the early Christian church, as to which ones to include in the Canon and which to exclude?  Now, you think, presumably, that the Gospels were written by eyewitnesses, and yet the Gospels themselves make it clear that the disciples of Jesus were peasants from Palestine, which means that they were illiterate and spoke Aramaic, not Greek.  And, so GC, who wrote the Gospels?

 By the time of the Councils of Nicaea the writers of the letters that make up the NT were long dead. The writers had no idea that a council would be convened about anything. These men were interested in teaching Christians in the proper way to be Christians and giving a written witness as to how to become a Christian. If they had of desired to write a book they would have gotten together and done so.

GC

(June 9, 2016 at 1:59 am)madog Wrote:

(June 9, 2016 at 1:54 am)Godschild Wrote:  Without being a Christian you can't get to the point I am and as the Bible says I have an understand far above your's.  

GC

Yes I used to be arrogant too ...

 Seems to me you still are, I on the other hand stated what the Bible says and that isn't arrogance. You can't answer the post with anything other than such a small diversion you shouldn't answer at all.

GC

(June 9, 2016 at 2:36 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 9, 2016 at 1:59 am)madog Wrote: Yes I used to be arrogant too ...

 Seems to me you still are, I on the other hand stated what the Bible says and that isn't arrogance. You can't answer the post with anything other than such a small diversion you shouldn't answer at all.

GC

If you can show me where in the bible it states you have an understanding far above mine I will recant 

(June 9, 2016 at 2:30 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 8, 2016 at 4:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Yet another contradiction between Mark, where both thieves mock Jesus, and Luke, where only one does.

Who knows, who cares?!  Saint Augustine taught that the thief on the cross in Luke's Gospel was, in fact, baptized sacramentally, albeit, from a distance.

Historically speaking, however, GC, your beliefs about infant baptism are rather novel, because every Church, whether Catholic, Orthodox or Coptic practiced such from the 2nd century on and no theologian until the time of Calvin ever disputed the practice of infant Baptism.

What they practiced is not found in the scriptures anywhere, so they are wrong, simply wrong. Just like the Jews who said a person had to be circumcised to be a Christian, there is no biblical support for that either. These and other things practiced by different denominations are what they want Christianity to be, they are not true because they have no biblical supported. This is one reason we have so many denominations. What makes you think that the one thief that rebuffed the other didn't at first mock Jesus, do you know that the Holy Spirit didn't convict his heart and reveal to him the truth of Jesus. Can you think of a better witness to Christ than one on the cross.By the time of the Councils of Nicaea the writers of the letters that make up the NT were long dead. The writers had no idea that a council would be convened about anything. These men were interested in teaching Christians in the proper way to be Christians and giving a written witness as to how to become a Christian. If they had of desired to write a book they would have gotten together and done so.

GC

GC, there are 27 books of the New Testament; how did the early Church reach that conclusion?  As far as the thief on the Cross, you're writing your "own Gospel"; Mark says that both men mocked Jesus, whereas, Luke says that only one did.  Luke does not say that one thief mocked Jesus, had a change of heart, and then decided to embrace Jesus' message.  Read the text (for "Christ's sake") -- it says that one thief mocked Jesus and was rebuked by the other thief.  That's how things happened in Luke's imagination.  As for the question of infant Baptism, what did the early Church believe prior to the Gospels and letters of Paul being written?  Where did they get their beliefs from?

(June 8, 2016 at 6:54 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:No 1st-century sources exist on the fate of any of the disciples.

There are no 1st century sources on the existence of any of the disciples, either.

They exist in Mark and Paul's authentic letters and not the forgeries that came later on.

(June 8, 2016 at 1:09 pm)robvalue Wrote: Shame they don't go study how and when it was actually written, so they can see why it's so incredibly easy to dismiss.

I think that could be a fun topic... you should start a new thread.

(June 9, 2016 at 7:31 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 9, 2016 at 2:30 am)Godschild Wrote:

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What they practiced is not found in the scriptures anywhere, so they are wrong, simply wrong. Just like the Jews who said a person had to be circumcised to be a Christian, there is no biblical support for that either. These and other things practiced by different denominations are what they want Christianity to be, they are not true because they have no biblical supported. This is one reason we have so many denominations. What makes you think that the one thief that rebuffed the other didn't at first mock Jesus, do you know that the Holy Spirit didn't convict his heart and reveal to him the truth of Jesus. Can you think of a better witness to Christ than one on the cross.By the time of the Councils of Nicaea the writers of the letters that make up the NT were long dead. The writers had no idea that a council would be convened about anything. These men were interested in teaching Christians in the proper way to be Christians and giving a written witness as to how to become a Christian. If they had of desired to write a book they would have gotten together and done so.

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GC

GC, there are 27 books of the New Testament; how did the early Church reach that conclusion?  As far as the thief on the Cross, you're writing your "own Gospel"; Mark says that both men mocked Jesus, whereas, Luke says that only one did.  Luke does not say that one thief mocked Jesus, had a change of heart, and then decided to embrace Jesus' message.  Read the text (for "Christ's sake") -- it says that one thief mocked Jesus and was rebuked by the other thief.  That's how things happened in Luke's imagination.  As for the question of infant Baptism, what did the early Church believe prior to the Gospels and letters of Paul being written?  Where did they get their beliefs from?

  I think you need to give some dates for what you consider the early church.
 The church of the first century did not decide what letters would make up the NT, they didn't even know there would be a NT joined to the OT. The disciples preached mostly from the OT showing the people that the Christ prophecies of the OT were about the man Jesus that came and witnessed to them. 

 Why do you think that each writer of the Gospels had to put every little detail in their writings. This is where so many make the mistake of believing there are contradictions in the scriptures. You can take the four Gospels put them together and have a book with more detail a fuller Gospel. Luke did not use his imagination to write his Gospel, Luke states his Gospel was the testimonies of many witnesses of Jesus life.
 By the way I have read the text many times, I've read the Bible from cover to cover and studied it for years.
Like I said above you need to date the years of the church you are speaking of, as far as I know the first century church didn't baptize infants. The first century church were taught by the disciples that traveled to different areas to help the early Christians and from the letters sent to them from the disciples, some which became the NT.

GC

(June 9, 2016 at 7:35 am)Jehanne Wrote:

(June 8, 2016 at 6:54 pm)Minimalist Wrote: There are no 1st century sources on the existence of any of the disciples, either.

They exist in Mark and Paul's authentic letters and not the forgeries that came later on.

Uh-huh.... and where are those "authentic" letters?

(June 9, 2016 at 3:06 am)madog Wrote:

(June 9, 2016 at 2:36 am)Godschild Wrote:  Seems to me you still are, I on the other hand stated what the Bible says and that isn't arrogance. You can't answer the post with anything other than such a small diversion you shouldn't answer at all.

GC

If you can show me where in the bible it states you have an understanding far above mine I will recant 

 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person (this would be you) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 

 1 Cor. 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 2 Cor. 3:14 But their minds were hardened. To this day when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it lifted.

 2 Cor. 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel.....

 James 1:5-8  

 Mark 4: 11-12 And Jesus said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that they may indeed  but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand....

 John 8:43 Jesus says, "Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you can not bear to hear my word.

GC