Are we done? Because I'm tired of pretending we're having a conversation in good faith. You understand white privilege, you just can't be bothered to concede...in too deep now.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: White privilege isn't his, it's -ours-...and yes, that's a blatantly obvious example of white privilege in a scenario that you actually took pains to find and identify because you believed there wouldn't be.  The privilege of having the powers that be at least follow the fuck through, like they're supposed to - even if actual justice is not achieved.  At least they wen't through the motions.  Some privilege, eh? Now imagine how shitty it must be not to have -that- privilege, really, take a few seconds to consider it......then, if you like, continue to argue that it doesn't exist.

I insisted repeatedly in this thread that privileges for white people exist.  White people get preferencial treatment in courts.  This doesn't mean there won't be white people who are in certain situations that make them less privileged than non white people in courts, it's just an overall statistical advantage for white people but not necesserily a real practical advantage for each individual white person.

What I've been arguing about is the the extent of white privilege and the use of the phrase to tar all white people with the same brush of being privileged.
Since by definition a white privilege would be an advantage white people have that no other racial group has.  Yet people continually say it's white privilege to be shot at less by the police when that's blatently an asian privilege.  People say wealth is a white privilege when white people don't earn the most on average out of all races even in America.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:06 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

Are we done?  Because I'm tired of pretending we're having a conversation in good faith.  You understand white privilege, you just can't be bothered to concede...in too deep now.

I'm not having a conversation with you in bad faith, whatever that means. I'm just pointing out where I don't think your logical follows through in relation to this person who was beaten to death by police having white privilege.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:07 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I insisted repeatedly in this thread that privileges for white people exist.  White people get preferencial treatment in courts.  This doesn't mean there won't be white people who are in certain situations that make them less privileged than non white people in courts, it's just an overall statistical advantage for white people but not necesserily a real practical advantage for each individual white person.

Then stop asking me where so and so's white privilege was.  You already know where it was and that it exists.

Quote:What I've been arguing about is the the extent of white privilege and the use of the phrase to tar all white people with the same brush of being privileged.
Since by definition a white privilege would be an advantage white people have that no other racial group has.  Yet people continually say it's white privilege to be shot at less by the police when that's blatently an asian privilege.  People say wealth is a white privilege when white people don't earn the most on average out of all races even in America.

Who's using white privilege to tar white people?  You're arguing against the notion of white privilege because you feel compelled to defend yourself or a race against an accusation I've not made....and all the while : looks up: ....you -do- understand what it is and that it exists.

Could it be that asian people get shot at less,. by police, because there are fewer asian people to shoot at in the first place...or that the social and racial dynamic between whites and asians isn't equivalent to the same between whites and blacks...and ofc there's the history......? My great grandfather used to tell me about the good old days when japs knew their place in the cotton fields, lol.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:12 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 17, 2016 at 2:07 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I insisted repeatedly in this thread that privileges for white people exist.  White people get preferencial treatment in courts.  This doesn't mean there won't be white people who are in certain situations that make them less privileged than non white people in courts, it's just an overall statistical advantage for white people but not necesserily a real practical advantage for each individual white person.

Then stop asking me where so and so's white privilege was.  You already know where it was and that it exists.

Quote:What I've been arguing about is the the extent of white privilege and the use of the phrase to tar all white people with the same brush of being privileged.
Since by definition a white privilege would be an advantage white people have that no other racial group has.  Yet people continually say it's white privilege to be shot at less by the police when that's blatently an asian privilege.  People say wealth is a white privilege when white people don't earn the most on average out of all races even in America.

Who's using white privilege to tar white people?  You're arguing against the notion of white privilege because you feel compelled to defend yourself or a race against an accusation I've not made....and all the while : looks up: ....you -do- understand what it is and that it exists.

It was a specific person I was asking about, the man who was beaten to death by police. I'm not asking where it was I'm saying I don't think he was privileged by any definition of privilege relating to any sort of description.

I'm asking you in what way was he advantaged because of his race and your reply is that because after he was beaten to death he enjoyed the privilege of the officers being charged before they were aquitted which I replied that it doesn't just happen to white people that way because it also happened to Freddie Grey.

White privilege by it's definition is something that defines all white people as being privileged by default, this is what you said previously.  That's what I mean by tarring all white people.
Which relates back to white people who live in poverty who are killed by police or killed by black people or just live unfortunate lives in general.  I don't think it's accurate to say their lives are still better for being white.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:18 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It was a specific person I was asking about, the man who was beaten to death by police. I'm not asking where it was I'm saying I don't think he was privileged by any definition of privilege relating to any sort of description.

Which is where it all went south, frankly...since you aren;t addressing the subject as it is, you're trying to slice and dice to find a single, specific, favorable example.  You still failed. 

Quote:I'm asking you in what way was he advantaged because of his race and your reply is that because after he was beaten to death he enjoyed the privilege of the officers being charged before they were aquitted which I replied that it doesn't just happen to white people that way because it also happened to Freddie Grey.

Will you now argue that here, in the US, a white person and a black person can -expect- the same treatment in that regard..or that black people are afforded this dignity at the same rate as whites?  Because if you won't..this objection is DOA.

Quote:White privilege by it's definition is something that defines all white people as being privileged by default, this is what you said previously.  That's what I mean by tarring all white people.
Which relates back to white people who live in poverty who are killed by police or killed by black people or just live unfortunate lives in general.  I don't think it's accurate to say their lives are still better for being white.

Except that it is accurate, it is quantifiable, and it has been demonstrated. All things being equal..it's better to be white...all things are not equal...and it's -still- better to be white. That's how things play out here, in the US. Privilege is relative, the man in the cage who gets beaten less often than the other men in the cage is still privileged, even though he's in a cage. It's not about whether or not a given person is in the cage with "the rest of them", but how he can expect to be treated while there. That's ignoring the fact that one race, in particular, can expect to avoid the cage in the first place...relative to the other.

Do you understand?

(July 17, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 17, 2016 at 2:18 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It was a specific person I was asking about, the man who was beaten to death by police. I'm not asking where it was I'm saying I don't think he was privileged by any definition of privilege relating to any sort of description.

Which is where it all went south, frankly...since you aren;t addressing the subject as it is, you're trying to slice and dice to find a single, specific, favorable example.  You still failed. 

Quote:I'm asking you in what way was he advantaged because of his race and your reply is that because after he was beaten to death he enjoyed the privilege of the officers being charged before they were aquitted which I replied that it doesn't just happen to white people that way because it also happened to Freddie Grey.

Will you know argue that here, in the US, a white person and a black person can -expect- the same treatment in that regard..or that black people are afforded this dignity at the same rate as whites?  Because if you aren't..this objection is DOA.

Quote:White privilege by it's definition is something that defines all white people as being privileged by default, this is what you said previously.  That's what I mean by tarring all white people.
Which relates back to white people who live in poverty who are killed by police or killed by black people or just live unfortunate lives in general.  I don't think it's accurate to say their lives are still better for being white.

Except that it is accurate, it is quantifiable, and it has been demonstrated.  All things being equal..it's better to be white...all things are not equal...and it's -still- better to be white.

All things not being equal it's still better to be white?  It's obvious innaccurate statements like this which is why I'm arguing the extent of white privilege.  And I have a feeling when I do you will just accuse me of critisizing the way you're phrasing things.

So a white person who's in prison is more privileged than 50 cent the multi millionaire musician? Which person do you think has the advantage of being able to walk outside of a prison and have sex with women and buy planes and cars?

Even if things are equal it's better to be white in a white majority country that America is yes.  That's controlling for all other factors.  This kind of privilege isn't something I'd argue about the statistics of but I'd argue it's not universally true in cases of white people in non white majority neighborhoods, it's no longer necesserily a privilege to be white.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:33 pm)paulpablo Wrote: All things not being equal it's still better to be white?  It's obvious innaccurate statements like this which is why I'm arguing the extent of white privilege.  And I have a feeling when I do you will just accuse me of critisizing the way you're phrasing things.

Calling something an obvious innaccuracy does not make it so.  Things are -not- equal between all members of the US public...and even so, it's demonstrably better to be white.  

Quote:So a white person who's in prison is more privileged than 50 cent the multi millionaire musician? Which person do you think has the advantage of being able to walk outside of a prison and have sex with women and buy planes and cars?

You're embarrassing yourself.  

Quote:Even if things are equal it's better to be white in a white majority country that America is yes. 

:looks up:  

Quote:That's controlling for all other factors. 

Actually, it;s not controlling for other factors...it;s including them.

Quote:This kind of privilege isn't something I'd argue about the statistics of but I'd argue it's not universally true in cases of white people in non white majority neighborhoods, it's no longer necesserily a privilege to be white.

The statistics, that you wouldn't argue about, say otherwise.

You really don;t know what it is you mean to say here, do you? Vacillating back and forth between agreement and disagreement.

(July 17, 2016 at 2:22 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 17, 2016 at 2:18 pm)paulpablo Wrote: It was a specific person I was asking about, the man who was beaten to death by police. I'm not asking where it was I'm saying I don't think he was privileged by any definition of privilege relating to any sort of description.

Which is where it all went south, frankly...since you aren;t addressing the subject as it is, you're trying to slice and dice to find a single, specific, favorable example.  You still failed. 

Quote:I'm asking you in what way was he advantaged because of his race and your reply is that because after he was beaten to death he enjoyed the privilege of the officers being charged before they were aquitted which I replied that it doesn't just happen to white people that way because it also happened to Freddie Grey.

Will you now argue that here, in the US, a white person and a black person can -expect- the same treatment in that regard..or that black people are afforded this dignity at the same rate as whites?  Because if you won't..this objection is DOA.

Quote:White privilege by it's definition is something that defines all white people as being privileged by default, this is what you said previously.  That's what I mean by tarring all white people.
Which relates back to white people who live in poverty who are killed by police or killed by black people or just live unfortunate lives in general.  I don't think it's accurate to say their lives are still better for being white.

Except that it is accurate, it is quantifiable, and it has been demonstrated.  All things being equal..it's better to be white...all things are not equal...and it's -still- better to be white.  That's how things play out here, in the US.  Privilege is relative, the man in the cage who gets beaten less often than the other men in the cage is still privileged, even though he's in a cage.  It's not about whether or not a given person  is in the cage with "the rest of them", but how he can expect to be treated while there.  That's ignoring the fact that one race, in particular, can expect to avoid the cage in the first place...relative to the other.

Do you understand?

 
And the race most likely to avoid being in the cage at all are Asians, not white people.

-And?  Firstly, you might be ignoring the brute force of demographics.....secondly...how does that speak to white privilege?