Lol, no doubt.

(August 7, 2016 at 4:24 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Perhaps. Or they could simply be honoring tradition like all other navies?

No doubt.  Other people think they honor the dishonorable part of their tradition.

What they've done would predictably be taken to be the equivalent of Germany naming a new division after waffen SS division Totenkopf  in the name of honoring a valiant tradition to fight against hopeless odds.  The eyebrow would be raised even higher should Germany have also claimed that the waffen SS did nothing wrong, as Japan claims she had done no wrong during or before WWII.

(August 7, 2016 at 6:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(August 7, 2016 at 4:24 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Perhaps. Or they could simply be honoring tradition like all other navies?

No doubt.  Other people think they honor the dishonorable part of their tradition.

What they've done would predictably be taken to be the equivalent of Germany naming a new division after waffen SS division Totenkopf in the name of honor a valiant tradition to fight against hopeless odds. The eyebrow would be raised even higher should Germany have also claimed that the waffen SS did nothing wrong, as Japan claims she had done no wrong during or before WWII.

Given that no atrocities have been blamed on the ships in question, I don't think your analogy is apt.

(August 7, 2016 at 7:15 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 7, 2016 at 6:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: No doubt.  Other people think they honor the dishonorable part of their tradition.

What they've done would predictably be taken to be the equivalent of Germany naming a new division after waffen SS division Totenkopf  in the name of honor a valiant tradition to fight against hopeless odds.  The eyebrow would be raised even higher should Germany have also claimed that the waffen SS did nothing wrong, as Japan claims she had done no wrong during or before WWII.

Given that no atrocities have been blamed on the ships in question, I don't think your analogy is apt.

The captain of the hiei, in the name of avenging the loss of his ship, later disobeyed orders from the Japanese army commander in Philippines to evacuate Manila and declare it an open city to avoid excessive civilian casualties.  Instead he ordered his naval personel, many of them surviving crewmen from the Hiei, to rampage through the city and massacred upwards of 20,000 Philippino civilians.

Between 1937 and 1942, when Japan made numerous amphibious landings in its war of conquest first in China and then in the southwest pacific, the naval special landing force, a sort of marine force drawn from sailors of major warships, formed the vanguard infantry of most of the smaller to medium scale landing operations and immediate occupations duties afterwards.   These forces had a reputation for exceptional brutality against civilian in China.  One might deduce the crew of most major Japanese warship which took part in landing operation along Chinese coast between 1937 and 1941 can lay claim to some significant war crimes.

Yes, and the naming of a new Hiei honors that action how?

If they had a ship named the Manila, you might have a point.

You're also moving the goalposts in introducing SNLFs.

You seem to think I'm arguing that they either didn't commit atrocities, or aren't engaged in revisionism. I'm not arguing either point. I'm arguing that continuing the decades-long practice of naming their ships after those lost in WWII is not as significant policy-wise as you seem to think. That is all I am arguing.

I think you're reading too much into it. You're clearly wedded to your position, as well, so I regard following this up any further as pointless.

(August 7, 2016 at 8:46 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Yes, and the naming of a new Hiei honors that action how?

If they had a ship named the Manila, you might have a point.

You're also moving the goalposts in introducing SNLFs.

You seem to think I'm arguing that they either didn't commit atrocities, or aren't engaged in revisionism. I'm not arguing either point. I'm arguing that continuing the decades-long practice of naming their ships after those lost in WWII is not as significant policy-wise as you seem to think. That is all I am arguing.

I think you're reading too much into it. You're clearly wedded to your position, as well, so I regard following this up any further as pointless.

Naming the new Hiei glosses over that action, in much the same way naming a new division after Totenkopf does not explicitly honor the atrocities committed by the division, but insinuate the division deserves honoring because it's atrocity didn't count against it, or deny those atrocities occurred at all, thus dis honoring the memories of its victims.

SNLF is drawn from major warships.  If a contingent from a particular ship committed an atrocity, it taints the name of the ship in the same way.  Thus referring to the SNLF hardly moves the goal post.

By your logic, mercedes should be getting shit because of all the atrocities commited by the nazi officers that drove around in mercedes staff cars. (I think they were mercs at the least. Regardless, you get my point.)

(August 7, 2016 at 9:38 pm)Jello Wrote: By your logic, mercedes should be getting shit because of all the atrocities commited by the nazi officers that drove around in mercedes staff cars. (I think they were mercs at the least. Regardless, you get my point.)

Mercedes and Volkswagen.

(August 7, 2016 at 9:39 pm)Bella Morte Wrote:

(August 7, 2016 at 9:38 pm)Jello Wrote: By your logic, mercedes should be getting shit because of all the atrocities commited by the nazi officers that drove around in mercedes staff cars. (I think they were mercs at the least. Regardless, you get my point.)

Mercedes and Volkswagen.

Volkswagen makes a lot of sense now that i think about it, so yeah
also, Anom, saying that naming an inanimate object that has no choice in what it does after a previous one, is the same as naming a group of people after a group that did have a choice, and carried out atrocities, is a bit silly. They're quite different.

Mercedes-Benz 770 was quite popular among the high-ranking Nazi officials. A truly beautiful car.