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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 1:11 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2016 at 1:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
-a variation on the theme of whether or not the question is properly formed. Perhaps there's something, rather than nothing, because nothing is not a sensible concept in reference to the cosmos. It sounds deep and profound, but in that case the question is actually a trivial absurdism.
It's a convenient (but also rational) answer to a question whose more pedantic answer is simply "We don't know".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 1:52 pm
(August 26, 2016 at 1:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -a variation on the theme of whether or not the question is properly formed. Perhaps there's something, rather than nothing, because nothing is not a sensible concept in reference to the cosmos. It sounds deep and profound, but in that case the question is actually a trivial absurdism.
It's a convenient (but also rational) answer to a question whose more pedantic answer is simply "We don't know".
Nothing sure has been getting a lot of press lately. Krauss pulls the metaverse from it like a rabbit out of a hat!
Stopping at "We don't know" is little better than "Goddidit" and stopping there.
Don't stop.
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 1:54 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2016 at 1:56 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Except that one isn't stopping...making your comparison a bit hard to understand...I suppose? Sounds more like the common wooster urge to level the ground.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 7:29 pm
(This post was last modified: August 26, 2016 at 7:35 pm by bennyboy.)
(August 26, 2016 at 1:52 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: (August 26, 2016 at 1:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -a variation on the theme of whether or not the question is properly formed. Perhaps there's something, rather than nothing, because nothing is not a sensible concept in reference to the cosmos. It sounds deep and profound, but in that case the question is actually a trivial absurdism.
It's a convenient (but also rational) answer to a question whose more pedantic answer is simply "We don't know".
Nothing sure has been getting a lot of press lately. Krauss pulls the metaverse from it like a rabbit out of a hat!
Stopping at "We don't know" is little better than "Goddidit" and stopping there.
Don't stop.
If you don't stop at "we don't know," then you're making shit up.
And the great thing is-- we can gradually change what we don't know, which means our "stop" is actually a steady march forward, at least in many areas.
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 10:26 pm
(August 26, 2016 at 1:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -a variation on the theme of whether or not the question is properly formed. Perhaps there's something, rather than nothing, because nothing is not a sensible concept in reference to the cosmos. It sounds deep and profound, but in that case the question is actually a trivial absurdism.
It's a convenient (but also rational) answer to a question whose more pedantic answer is simply "We don't know".
I especially agree with the part I've emphasised above. I think that what Krauss means by nothing, and what theologians mean by nothing aren't the same.
I think that by nothing, theologians mean nothing whatever, no matter, no energy, no anything, zero, zippo, zilch, sweet Fanny Adams. But we can only try to imagine what that is, because there is something.
When we try to imagine this supposed nothing: "where is it?"; "when was it?"; "for how long was it?" etc. All those questions are only ask-able from the here and now with its somethingness.
" In what would the nothing be contained?"; ( a trivial absurdism ) - it is contained in our minds, (which are something ). I can't convince myself that true nothingness is even possible. But as you say: "We don't know".
There are no atheists in terrorist training camps.
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 26, 2016 at 11:45 pm
(August 26, 2016 at 7:29 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (August 26, 2016 at 1:52 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Nothing sure has been getting a lot of press lately. Krauss pulls the metaverse from it like a rabbit out of a hat!
Stopping at "We don't know" is little better than "Goddidit" and stopping there.
Don't stop.
If you don't stop at "we don't know," then you're making shit up.
And the great thing is-- we can gradually change what we don't know, which means our "stop" is actually a steady march forward, at least in many areas. Ah great so you do and don't stop at "I don't know". 
Where have I asserted my journey or sciences journey or the recent several thousand year journey of civilization as anything but an incremental accumulative process over time?
For some perspective, those are 5d forms. Patterns that increase in complexity over time, opposite entropy. DNA is doing the same thing as evolution.
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 27, 2016 at 12:36 am
(This post was last modified: August 27, 2016 at 12:37 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 26, 2016 at 10:26 pm)Magilla Wrote: I especially agree with the part I've emphasised above. I think that what Krauss means by nothing, and what theologians mean by nothing aren't the same.
I think that by nothing, theologians mean nothing whatever, no matter, no energy, no anything, zero, zippo, zilch, sweet Fanny Adams. But we can only try to imagine what that is, because there is something.
When we try to imagine this supposed nothing: "where is it?"; "when was it?"; "for how long was it?" etc. All those questions are only ask-able from the here and now with its somethingness.
"In what would the nothing be contained?"; ( a trivial absurdism ) - it is contained in our minds, (which are something ). I can't convince myself that true nothingness is even possible. But as you say: "We don't know". IKR. Where and when are both spacetime questions. Questions of something rather than nothing. Where was nowhere, when was never? Is nothing? 
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 27, 2016 at 1:59 am
(August 26, 2016 at 11:45 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Ah great so you do and don't stop at "I don't know". I stop making positive assertions at "I don't know," because only an idiot would assert something they don't know.
Quote:Where have I asserted my journey or sciences journey or the recent several thousand year journey of civilization as anything but an incremental accumulative process over time?.
You said you've collected extensive "data," as though you are deeply studying the science of cosmogony. Go ahead, produce it. Wow us.
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 27, 2016 at 6:41 am
Guys, this only goes for a few minutes... Watch it and tell me if you think that consciousness really does play a role in how we perceive our subjective reality.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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RE: Why there is something rather than nothing...
August 27, 2016 at 7:39 am
(August 26, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: (August 26, 2016 at 7:55 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: The real question is why isn't the totality of the existence of all things a void of emptiness teeming with quantum activity like it was before "the universe" (or multiverse) expanded from it?
Why do you assume quantum emptiness is the default starting state?
How does "quantum emptiness" make matter?
Or is it more plausible that the beginning state was a "quantum fullness" (matter taking up all space) and the "inflation" (cavitation) of a universe made space within the original substance?
Lawrence Krauss' "A Universe From Nothing"= A universe from 'empty' (quantum) space.
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