(August 31, 2016 at 2:52 am)mcolafson Wrote: how does it work? or doesn't...

I always thought that this quote by C.S. Lewis always summed it up well.

C.S. Lewis Wrote:“You are told to love your neighbour as yourself. How do you love yourself? When I look into my own mind, I find that I do not love myself by thinking myself a dear old chap or having affectionate feelings. I do not think that I love myself because I am particularly good, but just because I am myself and quite apart from my character. I might detest something which I have done. Nevertheless, I do not cease to love myself. In other words, that definite distinction that Christians make between hating sin and loving the sinner is one that you have been making in your own case since you were born. You dislike what you have done, but you don't cease to love yourself. You may even think that you ought to be hanged. You may even think that you ought to go to the Police and own up and be hanged. Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained.”

Wow. C.S. Lewis is a dick.

(August 31, 2016 at 2:52 am)mcolafson Wrote: how does it work? or doesn't...

A good example is loving someone with an addiction.

You can love the individual and try and help them step through recovery, and still hate the sin.

This separation of the individual from the sin, can be applied to any sin.

(September 1, 2016 at 11:22 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 31, 2016 at 2:52 am)mcolafson Wrote: how does it work? or doesn't...

A good example is loving someone with an addiction.

You can love the individual and try and help them step through recovery, and still hate the sin.

This separation of the individual from the sin, can be applied to any sin.

But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god? And the Bible has some pretty nutty punishments for sinners - if you're supposed to love the sinner, why would you punish them?

(September 1, 2016 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 1, 2016 at 11:22 am)Drich Wrote: A good example is loving someone with an addiction.

You can love the individual and try and help them step through recovery, and still hate the sin.

This separation of the individual from the sin, can be applied to any sin.

But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god?

Well duh. You stone them to death to show them how much you love them.

Erase god's mistake before anyone sees!

(September 1, 2016 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 1, 2016 at 11:22 am)Drich Wrote: A good example is loving someone with an addiction.

You can love the individual and try and help them step through recovery, and still hate the sin.

This separation of the individual from the sin, can be applied to any sin.

But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god?  And the Bible has some pretty nutty punishments for sinners - if you're supposed to love the sinner, why would you punish them?

Do you think addiction is a matter of choice?

Maybe it's a choice when your not addicted, and you choose to try it, but when you get hooked it ceases being a choice. That is what I am talking about.

That is why God does not judge our 'morality.' Because we can not help but always sin (or so says Paul in Romans8) but whether or not we have elected the atonement Christ offers or not..

When we accept The atonement Christ offers we take off our morality and trade it for His morality. So when we are Judged we stand before God as Christ would stand before God and be judged.

We Are all sinners our sins of choice (Pride, sexuality based sins, covetousness) makes no matter These things are literally apart of us and we can not abandon them out right. As Paul puts it we are slaves to our sin, and as such there will be a point where we will follow our sin master. Now what seperates the saved from the unsaved, is the unsaved loves/makes provision/excuse for his sin, and the saved hates his sin, seperating the sin from the individual.

(September 1, 2016 at 1:21 pm)Drich Wrote:

(September 1, 2016 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god?  And the Bible has some pretty nutty punishments for sinners - if you're supposed to love the sinner, why would you punish them?

Do you think addiction is a matter of choice?

Maybe it's a choice when your not addicted, and you choose to try it, but when you get hooked it ceases being a choice. That is what I am talking about.

That is why God does not judge our 'morality.' Because we can not help but always sin (or so says Paul in Romans8) but whether or not we have elected the atonement Christ offers or not..

When we accept The atonement Christ offers we take off our morality and trade it for His morality. So when we are Judged we stand before God as Christ would stand before God and be judged.

We Are all sinners our sins of choice (Pride, sexuality based sins, covetousness) makes no matter These things are literally apart of us and we can not abandon them out right. As Paul puts it we are slaves to our sin, and as such there will be a point where we will follow our sin master. Now what seperates the saved from the unsaved, is the unsaved loves/makes provision/excuse for his sin, and the saved hates his sin, seperating the sin from the individual.

So no matter my sins in my life, no matter how degenerate my morality or my actions, if I honestly and genuinely accept the salvation that Jesus has offered, I'll be okay?

(September 1, 2016 at 11:31 am)Jesster Wrote:

(September 1, 2016 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god?

Well duh. You stone them to death to show them how much you love them.

It seems you are confusing OT Judaism with NT Christianity. As a Christian we are commanded to forgive as we have been forgiven, otherwise our forgiveness will be null and void.

(September 1, 2016 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(September 1, 2016 at 11:22 am)Drich Wrote: A good example is loving someone with an addiction.

You can love the individual and try and help them step through recovery, and still hate the sin.

This separation of the individual from the sin, can be applied to any sin.

But what about 'sins' that aren't a matter of choice or effort on the sinner's part? Like being homosexual or not believing in god? if you're supposed to love the sinner, why would you punish them?

Most people that I know, would make a distinction, between a same sex attraction, and acting upon it. It's really no different than an inclination towards those of the opposite sex and sin. You always have a choice, in whether you embrace or turn away from sin.

[quote]
if you're supposed to love the sinner, why would you punish them?
[\quote]
Would you say that any parent, that has ever punished their child, does not love them?

I don't understand the connection here in questioning "love the sinner; hate the sin". Is it being proposed, that if you cannot endorse and love everything that a person does, that you also cannot love them? Especially under the Christian view, but I think that for everyone, that would mean, that you cannot love anyone; including one's self.