(September 15, 2016 at 2:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So you do not thing that her and the wife, should make amends?

Because the husband is a lowlife prick taking advantage of the victim? The wife should have an issue with her husband, not with the victim. So, no, someone being raped doesn't have to make amends with anyone.

(September 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm)abaris Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 2:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So you do not thing that her and the wife, should make amends?

Because the husband is a lowlife prick taking advantage of the victim? The wife should have an issue with her husband, not with the victim. So, no, someone being raped doesn't have to make amends with anyone.

Ok... we'll distort things in the most negative way possible, to suit your view.... I'm done.

(September 15, 2016 at 3:56 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Ok... we'll distort things in the most negative way possible, to suit your view.... I'm done.

Good, since it has been an argument ex culum from the get go.

(September 15, 2016 at 2:41 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 2:23 pm)abaris Wrote: What has she to make amends for? For that sucker raping her, who already pleaded guilty to the charges? What's on her side that requires this to be a multi sided endeavor?

So you do not thing that her and the wife, should make amends?  What did the wife do?  Should she harbor ill -feelings towards the wife?

The wife is a non-entity in this scenario.  Her husband committed rape.  The child is the victim.  What the child thinks about the wife, positive or negative, is a non-issue, except perhaps to the therapist the child should be talking to in order to heal from the hideous crime that was inflicted upon her body and mind.

(September 15, 2016 at 2:16 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 2:04 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Here, let's look at the definition.


https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/amends

That is the only interpretation of that phrase, and it implicitly carries with it a charge of wrong-doing. Why you're ascribing that to me when it is the church which chose to insinuate wrong-doing on her part baffles me. I think you're upset at the wrong target.

I'm not saying she did anything wrong. I don't think she owes that church a goddamned thing, except perhaps a public excoriation for their disgusting behavior and a big, public middle finger.

So you would disagree with this definition then.
From:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_amends

Quote:(idiomatic) To repair a relationship; to make up; to resolve an argument or fight; to make reparations or redress.  [quotations ▼]

   I hope they can stop fighting and make amends.

I think that the one who was wronged in a situation, can attempt to make amends.  Although really it is not a single sided endeavor.  

To make reparations or your definition is not a wrong definition, but it is not the only one.

I've emphasized the problematic part of that definition (not that I regard Wiktionary as a better English reference than the Oxford English Dictionary).

Putting the onus on her to make amends is the issue, don't you agree? After all, it was the Church employee who violated her, not the other way 'round. Requiring her to make amends (if that is actually what happened) seems to me to be blame-shifting.

(September 15, 2016 at 2:04 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 9:47 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Are you saying that the girl had done something wrong?

  Why do you jump to the most negative interpretation of the phrase?

Here, let's look at the definition.

The Oxford English Dictionary Wrote:amends

PLURAL NOUN

Compensate or make up for a wrongdoing.

‘try to make amends for the rude way you spoke to Lucy’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/amends

That is the only interpretation of that phrase, and it implicitly carries with it a charge of wrong-doing. Why you're ascribing that to me when it is the church which chose to insinuate wrong-doing on her part baffles me. I think you're upset at the wrong target.

I'm not saying she did anything wrong. I don't think she owes that church a goddamned thing, except perhaps a public excoriation for their disgusting behavior and a big, public middle finger.

She owes that church an eight figure lawsuit, is what.

(September 15, 2016 at 6:47 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 2:16 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So you would disagree with this definition then.
From:  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_amends


I think that the one who was wronged in a situation, can attempt to make amends.  Although really it is not a single sided endeavor.  

To make reparations or your definition is not a wrong definition, but it is not the only one.

I've emphasized the problematic part of that definition (not that I regard Wiktionary as a better English reference than the Oxford English Dictionary).

Putting the onus on her to make amends is the issue, don't you agree? After all, it was the Church employee who violated her, not the other way 'round. Requiring her to make amends (if that is actually what happened) seems to me to be blame-shifting.

I went with a definition for what I have heard, which would be akin to making peace with. It was a meaning that I am familiar with, and how I took the context from the quote given previously. I don't think that making amends, only means reparations or payment, nor that it implies that something is owed. Dictionaries are not always perfect, and the meanings of words can vary (perhaps this view is more prevalent here)

I'm not putting the onus only on her, and can imagine, that it may be more difficult for the wife to make amends. Also from what the church said, they didn't require anything. I don't think it is about blame.

(September 15, 2016 at 9:12 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I'm not putting the onus only on her, and can imagine, that it may be more difficult for the wife to make amends.  Also from what the church said, they didn't require anything.  I don't think it is about blame.

The thing is, the church is putting the onus on her. Why should a victim of molestation be urged to make amends by the agency that employed her molester?

The church's denial was issued to the press, not a court. The mother's accusation that the church required amends was made under oath in a court. I'd put more stock in the latter, both because it was sworn testimony, and because I've seen too often how shitty churches can treat people who stand up to abuse under the rubric of faith.

(September 15, 2016 at 10:26 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(September 15, 2016 at 9:12 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I'm not putting the onus only on her, and can imagine, that it may be more difficult for the wife to make amends.  Also from what the church said, they didn't require anything.  I don't think it is about blame.

The thing is, the church is putting the onus on her. Why should a victim of molestation be urged to make amends by the agency that employed her molester?

The church's denial was issued to the press, not a court. The mother's accusation that the church required amends was made under oath in a court. I'd put more stock in the latter, both because it was sworn testimony, and because I've seen too often how shitty churches can treat people who stand up to abuse under the rubric of faith.

Was he employed by the church? I'm not sure why, I was under the impression that this wasn't a very big church. And as I said, I see things differently,

I'm not saying that they couldn't, be trying to cover themselves; but I just don't see that in the story....

He was their youth pastor. Are you being intentionally obtuse? The article in the OP reports that at the head of the third paragraph.

I have no idea what you think they're "covering" themselves from, nor what that has to do with my point.